Well, I can't resist weighing in on this one.....
I see that you are a hypnobirther and one of the Grantley Dick-Read mob. While GD-R was obviously a very intuitive man who really cared that women had such a hard time giving birth, in some ways he got the wrong end of the stick. The pain is an essential part of the labour, necessary to keep birth normal, but it doesn't have to be overly painful. When pain is excessive, it is usually the result of a hormonal response to fear (and the surge of adrenaline it produces). As GD-R pointeds out, if you get rid of the fear, the pain wil be reduced, but it will not go away completely. The bath/shower/hot water is one just one way of reducing (not eliminating) the pain, amongst many other strategies employed by women.
Frank, I fear that if you start trying to tell women (and certainly those experienced women on this list) that only labour without pain is normal, you'll shoot your credentials to bits (and these may be considered a bit shaky already).
Lots has been written about the important relationships between the various hormones that are working during labour and how they enhance or reduce pain. I should imagine that you have already read these refererences. How can thousands of years of human and (animal) evolution be so misinterpreted? Labour needs to hurt so we know it is happening and so we can find somewhere safe, away from preditors and meddling others. It is a safety issue, the primary safety issue, if you like.....
Andrea
At 22:39 7/12/2002, Frank Jockel wrote:
Dear All, The most important right that a birthing mother has.... is to give birth GENTLY, EASILY and without PAIN.What really upsets me, is that most women expect pain, and what you expect, is what you get. And yes, I know I'm oversimplifying, however, pain is a warning that something is wrong and there is nothing wrong with giving birth so if there is pain, then that means there is something wrong elsewhere. That elsewhere is how women have been programmed to think, by society, friends, well meaning Physio's or midwives etc, that there will be pain and discomfort. Pain IS NOT the natural inheritance of women. ( He got off his soapbox for a moment to catch his breath) Women's bodies are designed to give birth. Read Dr Grantley Dick-Read, Childbirth Without Pain. I understand the calming effects of being in a hot tub etc, and all comforting factors are appreciated and understood against my sorrow that the wonderful woman is giving birth in pain and discomfort. And for my part, I still believe that as a matter of Physics, a baby has bouyancy. Gravity is a myth, the Earth sucks, however. For a wonderful discussion on no pain births, ask Peter Jackson, Midwife, Bowral - HypnoBirth'er. ...He loves water births ;-) You have a right and an obligation to ask ME to think, and that's right. I in turn, ask you to think...what's wrong with Labour? Why does it have to HURT? Frank -------Original Message------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, December 07, 2002 21:29:04 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water Dear Frank - I endorse the comments of Mary, Jan, Sally etc. I'm assuming you've had extensive experience with water births to come to this enlightened opinion. I've never seen a newborn baby so filled with air that it is like a ball underwater... in fact, in my text book they have no air at all until they reach the surface and breath (so gently and beautifully). Finally, a woman belongs where she wants to be -- if that happens to be a birthing chair, fine, but NO ONE has the right to say YOU BELONG HERE OR THERE while birthing. Have you heard of woman centred care?? Thank God for caring thinking midwives like Pete (hug, and pat on the back from Lois). Have a think about it Frank. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Jockel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water Hi, I just have to give my two bob's worth regarding water births... I think water births are the STUPIDEST idea since the Irish decided to land on the sun at night. What happens when you push a ball under water? Its bouyancy makes it pop UP A baby has bouancy too. So unless the mother is willing to wear a snorkel and mask and be upside down, pointing her perineum at the surface, the baby is fighting bouancy and the uterus is fighting bouancy... stupid. Get out of the water and onto a birthing chair where you belong and let Gravity do the work Water for fish.. Regards, Frank Jockel -------Original Message------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, 07 December 2002 03:41:26 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [ozmidwifery] birthing in dam water Could people tell me of their experiences with birthing in dam water, we really don't have enough rainwater on site to use, this dam water is used for general washing etc it runs through the solar hotwater service but is quite turbid, yours in midwifery pete malavisi -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. .. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe. . -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
----- Andrea Robertson Birth International * ACE Graphics * Associates in Childbirth Education e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] web: www.birthinternational.com -- This mailing list is sponsored by ACE Graphics. Visit <http://www.acegraphics.com.au> to subscribe or unsubscribe.
