Re: [ozmidwifery] repeat cs candidates

Justine Caines Sun, 30 Mar 2003 05:28:04 -0800

Title: Re: [ozmidwifery] repeat cs candidates

Hi Rhonda and all

I agree with Denise, this is sad.

I do hope that neither of these children are female, what a sad role mother as a woman! Sorry to be so brutal but what does this say.

I always remember the work of Ted Noff’s Life Education that encourages primary school children to love and honour their bodies in an attempt to prevent them becoming substance abusers. I see parallels here, with how women see their bodies in pregnancy and birth, we have a whole generation of women that see their bodies as problematic, smelly and something to be ashamed of.

This woman will be pissed off to go into labour! Gee how bout the poor little critter getting ripped out....

So glad to be one of the lunatic minority tonight

Justine

PS: Sometimes the majority simply means all the fools are on the same side!

I was talking to a woman the other day who is booked in for a second C/S because - she is having her tubes tied at the same time. Easier that way!
Her first was booked due to 'disproportion' and so she was booked in as soon as she fell pregnant although they have given her 4 different due dates so she is hoping that they have booked the c/s soon enough --
"Gee, If I have one contraction with this one I will be so cross. I didn't have any with the last and if they are wrong and I go into labour I will be really pissed off!"

I was a little taken back by her attitude and pointed out that i had wanted to deliver my son and that labour wasn't as bad as a c/s and she sort of grunted about this being easier and having her tubes tied being her main reason.

"Once the baby is born they can do a full hysterectomy for all I care just so long as I don't have any more!"

I guess it has all been said before but I thought that the tubes tied as the reason was a bit of a convenient reason - can't they do that through keyhole surgery latter? Had they told her that it was not a great big cut if she went back for that? I wonder what advice she was given and what sort of facts they presented her with?

Rhonda

-------Original Message-------

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Saturday, 29 March 2003 07:30:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [ozmidwifery] repeat cs candidates

I come across a number of women whom have had more than one cs and when I
talk to them about the risks of repeat cs, the ones who don't go off mad at
me for bringing it up, say that their concerns are for the babies safety
only. I find this incredible that they firmly believe that a cs is safer
for child. When I ask about respiratory disorder and so on, their response
is that they would prefer baby to be in a nursery for a few hours for
monitoring for breathing problems rather than neo-natal intensive care unit
for weeks/ months with brain damage. They seriously believe that an event
like that is common with vaginal births! Mind you, if you look at our
Australian society's attitude towards birth being fraught with danger, it is
easy to understand how these women think that it is true.
When asked about the risks to themselves, they say things such as "I am only
having one/two child/ren anyway" or they would prefer to have a cut on
their tummies rather than a huge tear from their vaginas to their
anus....again skewed view points showing through. (I usually say "well I
can tell you 19 staples in the tummy hurts like hell" "what do you mean
staples???" but now it is a dissolvable stich in many cases so it is even
more trivialised by some care providers)
Not really saying anything you guys haven't already heard but just thought I
would put the anecdotal information that I have come across with CARES.

How many hospitals have a cs antenatal class?

How many have VBAC classes?

I have had a discussion with Marc Keirse (effective care) about introducing
VBAC models of care (in the form of VBAC clinics eg) however his first
thoughts were that it would marginalise VBAC. But my retort was that we are
already marginalised as high risk (no birth centre, continuous monitoring
time restrictions etc) but if we were cared for by educated supportive and
caring care providers who focus on our 99.7% chance of our scar rupturing
and not the 0.3% that it could, then being marginalised would be a good
thing.
Any thoughts on this suggestion?

Jo Bainbridge
founding member CARES SA
www.cares-sa.org.au <http://www.cares-sa.org.au>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
phone: 08 8388 6918
birth with trust, faith & love...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lois Wattis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks of 4th c/s and support for artificial
feeding

> Dear Lynne and others on this subject
> I agree this information needs to be given to women antenatally in
whatever
> location they can be accessed. Problem is, women planning C.S. for
whatever
> reason frequently don't attend any antenatal education because they
consider
> they do not need it (not planning labour), so they are missed. Their
total
> exposure to 'education' is what they get from the ob (!!!) usually scant
at
> best.
>
> Another common situation is that they are not 'planning' another pregnancy
> so discount the potential consequences abnormal placental implantation in
a
> subsequent pregnancy. We all know some pregnancies occur - unplanned....
> Women tend to hear what they want to, and discount the info they feel does
> not apply to them. I also find they (elective C.S. candidates) often know
> NOTHING of the potential risk for endometrial problems related to their
> scarred uterus.... another subject infrequently discussed in the "ob.
> education" process. Unfortunately, so many of the elective C.S. women are
> NOT making truly informed choices. (sigh) Lois
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, March 29, 2003 6:53 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks of 4th c/s and support for artificial
> feeding
>
>
> The potential for placental problems does not seem to be discussed with
> women when they are booking in for repeat caesareans. When I speak with
> women who are having elective repeat caesareans, they seem unaware that
this
> may be a consequence of this choice. As a result of this, this information
> is included in antenatal classes when discussing caesarean birth and also
in
> the VBAC and caesarean class.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marilyn Kleidon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2003 1:33 AM
> Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks of 4th c/s and support for artificial
> feeding
>
>
> > Hi Sarah: I just wanted to add a note about the increased risks of
> placenta
> > previa, accreta, and percreta which are real risks to a populatiuon of
> women
> > who have had prior cesarean birth(s). However they really don't tell us
> > anything about this woman's actual risk. If she has had problems with
> > removal of the placenta after her previous cesareans then maybe this can
> be
> > checked out with u/s as this would tell us valuable info. We had a mum
in
> > for an elective repeat caesar the other week who had a known placenta
> > percreta (had been checked by u/s as having not grown through to the
> > bladder). There were extensive precautions taken to avoid an obstetric
> > disaster and they did. I think the risk of women having these placental
> > problems after c/s is a bit like women's risk of developing kelloid
> growths
> > after ear piercings: some of us will never develop them (0% actual risk)
> and
> > others will always develop them (100% actual risk), but we don't know an
> > individuals actual response until after the event, so all we can give is
a
> > population risk.
> >
> > I think an outcome of the increasing number of caesars occuring right
now
> is
> > this increased risk of retained placentas (accretas etc..) due to
uterine
> > scarring. Since we have not done this before I think we simply don't
know
> > what the risks of this particular outcome occuring will be.
> >
> > marilyn
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lynne Staff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 1:16 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] risks of 4th c/s and support for artificial
> > feeding
> >
> >
> > > Hi Sarah - has she considered labouring and giving birth?
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "sarah.darling" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: "Ozmidwifery" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 4:03 PM
> > > Subject: [ozmidwifery] risks of 4th c/s and support for artificial
> feeding
> > >
> > >
> > > > Recent new subscriber here. I'm a community midwife in England and
am
> > > really
> > > > struggling to find research on the risks of a 4th c/s as opposed to
> any
> > > > other number c/s (i.e. what are the increased risks of a 4th c/s, if
> > any,
> > > so
> > > > that one of 'our' women can make a decision whether to try for a 4th
> > baby
> > > as
> > > > she has been told that 4 x c/s is 'too dangerous' - her quote). Also
> > does
> > > > anyone know of any research asking women whether, if they chose to
> > > > artificially feed their baby, they received support/teaching in
making
> > up
> > > > feeds, etc., singly or in groups. This is for a senior student and
her
> > > > dissertation. Really enjoying all the wisdom out there! Best wishes
> > > > Sarah Darling
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Community midwife
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
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> > >
> > > --
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
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>
> --
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>
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