Re: [ozmidwifery] Yahoo news article

[Diane Gardner]

Perhaps their social constructs allow them to accept and process thing differently…. You said             Their belief systems were taught that pain is a conditioned response, so gave it something else to believe instead.   We are talking about different cultures here. Perhaps their social constructs allow them to accept and process thing differently…. Yes because they are NOT taught that pain is a conditioned response. The women I talked to said that childbirth was not painful, they were not taught that it would be, more that they were born to have babies and they did that with love and support not pain and discomfort. These were poor people who didn't read books and watch the TV soaps with dramatised births. Simple people.   Their belief systems were taught that pain is a conditioned response, so gave it something else to believe instead. This is from our culture, taught and overheard and programmed from when we were little girls so that when we do become pregnant we are already programmed to respond to labour with pain because that is what everyone told us it would be. The more educated we are the more "in touch" with feelings we become. We read books that talk widely about pain, we go to childbirth education classes and a whole session is devoted to pain. Every TV program dramatises childbirth to get the ratings. Where's the choices for young mums today? So many young girls at the Parents and Baby Expo walked past saying about birth "ha, I'm not even going there, I've heard all about that". Already programmed. So I guess what you are really asking is....What is their pain? Is it writhing, screaming, dull ache, I guess I can only answer your question if I questioned all women in 3rd world countries. Instead I can only speak for the cross section of women I did speak to who let me know that they were not told it WAS going to be pain and so didn't experience it. Grantly Dick Read also researched it thoroughly and I have no reason to doubt his reports.   So should I not have reported it in the article that way? I don't think so because if your belief system has even the slightest doubt that birth doesn't have to be painful then you have, even if it is a small glimmer from a 3rd world country, the choice of not going there.   A great discussion Sally. Imagine if we did not have ANY pain in childbirth how different would giving birth be? How different would the generation be? No birth trauma, baby or mother.........................hmmmmmm.......... no obstetricians needed and all midwives would deliver babies! How great would THAT be! Go middies!   regards Diane Gardner   ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 8:07 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Yahoo news article Actually I was not questioning the effectiveness of hypnobirthing…   So all women in china and India feel no pain???.. … to say that a women gives birth with ‘no fuss’ is not to say she feels no pain.. I stand by this question? Do all women in China feel no pain?? It is just such blanket statements that set women up to fail…   My statement about belief systems and yours actually are saying the same things..   I said Perhaps their social constructs allow them to accept and process thing differently…. You said             Their belief systems were taught that pain is a conditioned response, so gave it something else to believe instead.   Sally Westbury Midwife.   -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Diane Gardner Sent: Wednesday, 29 October 2003 3:00 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [ozmidwifery] Yahoo news article   I guess it's healthy to be doubting about pain, Sally as long as that doesn't become your only reality. Everyone has choice. I've spoken to women in China and India and Dick Read tells how he had witnessed women on the side of road squatting giving birth with no fuss (his words). How do you know they DO feel pain or is it just that our belief systems are taught that response?   I have attended many births here and wittnessed many women feeling only tightening and pressure, no pain. Others discomfort but not pain. All had comfortable births. Midwives often were a little confused because these women didn't show the "normal" pain signs during labour and so often weren't ready for the birth itself. They also commented afterwards that it had been years since they had seen a natural birth in a labour room without being medically managed. They were really impressed at the trust that the labouring mum had in herself. Trust? or the belief that they had that women are designed to give birth comfortably with little or no discomfort.   I have a video from Dateline USA who filmed 2 couples last August or September and followed them through their pregnancies and giving birth, pain free and it went to air in the USA. The interviewers too doubted it. The couples had 6 hypnosis sessions with their Obstetrician and gave birth with only pressure and very comfortably. All recorded on film. And it did. Beautifully.   regards Diane Gardner     ----- Original Message ----- From: Sally Westbury To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 2:50 PM Subject: RE: [ozmidwifery] Yahoo news article   Sorry to be the doubting thomas… but does anyone really believe that women in third world contries don’t feel pain?? Perhaps their social constructs allow them to accept and process thing differently….   Sally Westbury