let's ask our greek friends what is the best way we can help them, and then see what we can do collectively ?
Michel On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 11:54 PM, Örsan Şenalp <[email protected]> wrote: > This is the high time for forming the rapid deployment force. Can't we > call all pool rapid funds, coop-funding, crowdfunding, self-funding... > so on to make this happen. If not now, when? > > Orsan > > Michel Bauwens schreef op 12-2-2015 om 17:45: > > there are no plans nor funding for a new big commons conference ... > > > > On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:41 PM, Roberto Verzola <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > >> Perhaps, the next intl conference on the commons should be held in > >> Greece... > >> > >> Roberto Verzola > >> > >> > >> On Thu, 12 Feb 2015 00:52:05 -0700 > >> "Wolfgang Hoeschele" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >>> Dear Friends, > >>> > >>> Very interesting discussion! > >>> > >>> I wonder is there opportunity (or need) to promote commons or p2p > >>> concepts directly with the Greek government? How much are they in > >>> touch with these movements in Greece and internationally? Can it be > >>> useful to them if networking with us shows EU negotiators that 1) > >>> there are proponents of a new approach around Europe and elsewhere > >>> (i.e., Syriza is not alone in searching for new alternatives that > >>> break the "grow like mad or die" alternative?), and 2) there are > >>> actual models that can be implemented and there are people both > >>> inside and outside Greece who can help make it possible? > >>> > >>> It seems to me that there is very little time available for the Greek > >>> negotiators to achieve a breakthrough and thereby allow space for new > >>> approaches to flourish in Greece, or else to fail, leading to a > >>> resumption of austerity policies (with, I fear, disastrous results > >>> for Greek politics, because I have no idea to whom Greek voters would > >>> then turn). So, if we can do something internationally to help in > >>> this process, it might be very important to do so now. Since there > >>> are Greek participants in this list, I would very much like to hear > >>> from you what you think about this. > >>> > >>> By the way, personally this also interests me because as a teenager, > >>> when my father was working in Athens, I lived there - so there is > >>> that personal connection! > >>> > >>> Best wishes, > >>> Wolfgang > >>> > >>> > >>> -------- Original Message -------- > >>> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] Greek Vice-President explicitely > >>> endorses commons strategy before parliament > >>> From: George Papanikolaou <[email protected]> > >>> Date: Wed, February 11, 2015 10:09 pm > >>> To: Eleftherios Kosmas <[email protected]> > >>> Cc: Vasilis Kostakis <[email protected]>, > >>> [email protected], Commoning > >>> <[email protected]>, > >>> "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, > >>> Commoning List <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> Eleftherios thank you for the translation. > >>> Knowing Greek politics and considering that Dragasakis is the nr 2 > >>> (not to say nr 1) in the Greek government, I think this is an > >>> important statement. It shows profound thinking and his openness to > >>> the commons ideas. > >>> > >>> Best regards > >>> George > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:51 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: Sorry for my previous half finished > >>> message. > >>> > >>> Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr Dragasakis I will try to > >>> translate some parts of it. Bear in mind that due to the cultural and > >>> linguistic differences of the Greek language with English I might not > >>> be able to convey it properly (I am not a trained translator) > >>> > >>> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements" > >>> > >>> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a > >>> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter > >>> of the commons personally and in public is the following. > >>> > >>> I would like to, conclude with the permission of the President, with > >>> a general thought. Often in everyday life we all live events > >>> happening that only hindsight their importance. We live, then, and > >>> now a historic era, characterized not only by the crisis and the > >>> collapse of obsolete models, but we live a crisis that eventually > >>> spawned new models and new social organization models, as was done in > >>> the past. In this sense, then, this is an opportunity to take up the > >>> deficits of the past, to close this modernization deficit, but by > >>> addressing the contemporary social problem of unemployment, social > >>> security and social exclusion. This could establish a new paradigm in > >>> Greece and other countries of southern Europe, combining advanced > >>> forms of democracy, social self-motivation, social justice on a > >>> strong foundation of common goods, a society-centric model, which > >>> would give dignity and confidence in society hope to the people, > >>> optimism in the new generation. Thus, Greece from being the > >>> Guenna-pig of austerity and destruction could be the a ground of > >>> pioneering ideas and policies, and the benefit would not be just for > >>> us. The world would become a security goal in a region of insecurity > >>> and "aged" Europe could re-discover through the symbiosis of > >>> different development models inside. Let's not rush some say that > >>> these are utopias, because there are utopias that are realistic. Are > >>> those whose implementation depends not on supernatural powers, but by > >>> the unity and collective action of ordinary people in Europe, in > >>> Greece and worldwide. Thank you. > >>> > >>> > >>> Greek speakers could find the original here. > >>> > >>> http://www.dragasakis.gr/omiliesparembaseis.php?id=1041 > >>> > >>> I hope this could help a bit on the conversation. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:43 PM, Eleftherios Kosmas > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: Hi guys. I checked the speech of Mr > >>> Dragasakis I will try to translate some parts of it. Bear in mind > >>> that due to the cultural and linguistic differences of the Greek > >>> language with English I might not be able to convey it properly (I am > >>> not a trained translator) > >>> > >>> "Title: Speech during the government's policy statements" > >>> > >>> The most interesting part at least for my shelf as a member of a > >>> commons based collective like hackerspace.gr and a strong supporter > >>> of the commons. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 10:50 PM, P2P Foundation mailing list > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: understood Vasilis, > >>> > >>> but the big danger is that all the energy goes to crisis management, > >>> and that the real transformative work is put on hold for when > >>> conditions are right .. > >>> > >>> so the only way out is to work on both simultaneously, i.e. work on > >>> the crisis while also setting in place the framework for this longer > >>> term change, > >>> > >>> Michel > >>> > >>> On Wed, Feb 11, 2015 at 11:02 PM, Vasilis Kostakis > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: Michel, > >>> > >>> The passage you shared was written from memory and I cannot find > >>> anywhere on the web (perhaps in video format) the explicit reference. > >>> However, I think that my memory is good and more or less this was > >>> what the vice-present said. Moreover, allow me to share George > >>> Papanikolaou's reaction in relation to my message, in which he > >>> highlights that Dragasakis's basic idea was that "the european south > >>> can open the way to new productive relations". In addition to this, > >>> George emphasizes that "the priority now is to stabilize the > >>> situation and give us time for experimentation". > >>> > >>> Let's see... > >>> > >>> v. > >>> > >>> On 11 February 2015 at 17:30, Michel Bauwens > >>> <[email protected]> wrote: This is very important news: > >>> > >>> perhaps George or Vasilis can find the explicit reference ? > >>> especially in english ? > >>> > >>> see: > >>> > >>> " Dragasakis's (vice-president of the government) finale during his > >>> speech in the parliament, where he explicitly referred to new > >>> bottom-up, Commons-based productive models which will have a global > >>> orientation and will fuel Greece's post-crisis sustainable > >>> development." > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > >>> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan > >>> > >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - > >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > >>> > >>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > >>> > >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Dr. Vasilis Kostakis > >>> > >>> Senior Research Fellow > >>> Ragnar Nurkse School of Innovation and Governance > >>> > >>> Research Director > >>> P2P Lab: http://p2plab.org > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: > >>> http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan > >>> > >>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - > >>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net > >>> > >>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens > >>> > >>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> P2P Foundation - Mailing list > >>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net > >>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://elkosmas.gr > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> http://elkosmas.gr > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------ > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Commoning mailing list > >>> Commons-Institut e.V. Germany > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Commoning mailing list > >> Commons-Institut e.V. Germany > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.schokokeks.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/commoning > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Commoning mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.wissensallmende.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning > > > -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://en.wiki.floksociety.org/w/Research_Plan P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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