I agree with Rick and Brian. And I agree with Ken. Everyone on the PDML is capable of giving frank and respectful critique. Everyone has the rhetorical skills and the photographic technical skills. I wasn't on the list when the situation Bill refers to took place, but I just can't recall a time when anyone came rhetorically close to repeating that situation since I've been on the list, yet there have been plenty of times PDMLers received helpful critique, and I've benefited from it. Like Larry, I find it helpful when reading the critiques of other people's work. Like Brian has said, "Can't we just move on?"
Cheers, Christine On Nov 25, 2011, at 10:01 PM, "Brian Walters" <[email protected]> wrote: > On Friday, November 25, 2011 6:45 PM, "Rick Womer" > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Having nominated Bill for a "Mark!", I don't agree with him. >> >> Over the summer I posted a view from a New Hampshire peak. I got lots of >> interesting and useful comments, and one list member manipulated the >> photo in LR and posted a version much better than mine. I learned a lot >> from that--it is this group at its best. >> >> When a pic falls short, I want to know why. Several people here are >> gratifyingly, constructively critical. >> >> When I have a pic that works, it's nice to be told so, and also be told >> =why= people think it works. Many listers are good at that, too. >> >> What I don't like is getting no comments on a photo at all. If it's "an >> excruciatingly boring, poor rendering of a banal and cliched subject" I'd >> like to know that. If it's technically great but the subject is lacking, >> or vice versa, I'd like to know that, too. >> > > > I pretty much agree with Rick on this. > > I only vaguely recall the issue that Bill and Paul referred to, when a > particularly scathing and personal critique was given. That must be > nudging 8-10 years ago, but it seems to have put a permanent moratorium > on providing full and frank feedback. Can't we move on? > > > Cheers > > Brian > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Brian Walters > Western Sydney Australia > http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/ > > > > > >> Rick >> >> http://photo.net/photos/RickW >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: William Robb <[email protected]> >> To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List <[email protected]> >> Cc: >> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:06 PM >> Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism >> >> On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry Colen wrote: >> >>> One thing I haven't seen a lot of is discussion on how to give and take >>> criticism. And a related discussion >> of what venues on the net, or off, are good for that sort of discussion. >>> >>> -- >>> >> That's because we don't offer criticism here. We had a regular member who >> attempted it one time; he was promptly chased off the island. >> It put a very real chill on the entire concept of giving an honest >> critique of images that get shown here, since any honest critique will >> likely have some criticism accompanying it (that being what the word >> critique kind of come from.) >> I tried to give a critique one time and was told to accept the photograph >> on it's own merits, and either accept it for what it was or STFU. >> And now you know why most every photograph that is shown here, whether it >> be a stunning landscape or a tedious snapshot of a child playing with a >> kitten gets, more or less, the same response (great capture, stunning >> image, etc) or no comment at all. >> >> Most people don't want a critique, they want an ego massage, and no one >> likes to be told that their image is an excruciatingly boring, poor >> rendering of a banal and cliched subject. >> >> -- >> William Robb >> >> -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> [email protected] >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. >> >> > -- > > > -- > http://www.fastmail.fm - Same, same, but different... > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > [email protected] > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. > -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List [email protected] http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
