Well I have to jump in just to say this - while I don't bother to
comment at all on photos that don't interest me my "doest quite work for
me" and suggestions like why dont you you crop a bit are always
comments made to photograhers that really do want comments and who
seem to be to be those who would like to hear them.
But I hope noone ever reads the _lack_ of any comment at all by me
(or, for that matter, lots of others of us) as an automatic thumbs down
- the randomness with which I read the list and look at the Peso's
cannot be exagerated...
My PDML folder has over 2000 emails in it right now, and 1258 unread.
I'll never get around to reading anything more than a couple of days old.
For the most part I only show stuff to the list of my own that I think
is at least competent but more as a way of telling what I've been up to
instead of writing it in words... or presenting a couple of choices
on the same subject because I can't decide which works better...
I probably should keep from commenting too much on images until after
my eye exam in January :-)
ann
On 11/26/2011 09:44, Jack Davis wrote:
I agree with Paul. Not that I see every posted image, but if I really can't
find something sufficiently pleasing about an image, I often convey these
feelings by not commenting.
Doesn't happen often, at least not that I've recently noticed, but I find it
particularly inappropriate for a third party to jump to an indignant defense of
an image by means of demeaning comments directed at the critique's author.
Jack
.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul Stenquist<[email protected]>
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List<[email protected]>
Cc:
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 5:02 AM
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism
On Nov 26, 2011, at 3:16 AM, Christine Aguila wrote:
I agree with Rick and Brian. And I agree with Ken. Everyone on the PDML is capable of
giving frank and respectful critique. Everyone has the rhetorical skills and the
photographic technical skills. I wasn't on the list when the situation Bill refers to
took place, but I just can't recall a time when anyone came rhetorically close to
repeating that situation since I've been on the list, yet there have been plenty of times
PDMLers received helpful critique, and I've benefited from it. Like Larry, I find it
helpful when reading the critiques of other people's work. Like Brian has said,
"Can't we just move on?"
Of course. And I think we have. I only referred to the situation Bill
mentioned, because the overall negative reaction to that particular critique of
so many years ago was justified. I think our discussions of posted photos are
appropriate for this type of list. Tips are frequently offered and questions
are raised. When no one comments on a photo I've posted, I count that as a
statement in itself: BORING!
Cheers, Christine
On Nov 25, 2011, at 10:01 PM, "Brian Walters"<[email protected]> wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2011 6:45 PM, "Rick Womer"
<[email protected]> wrote:
Having nominated Bill for a "Mark!", I don't agree with him.
Over the summer I posted a view from a New Hampshire peak. I got lots of
interesting and useful comments, and one list member manipulated the
photo in LR and posted a version much better than mine. I learned a lot
from that--it is this group at its best.
When a pic falls short, I want to know why. Several people here are
gratifyingly, constructively critical.
When I have a pic that works, it's nice to be told so, and also be told
=why= people think it works. Many listers are good at that, too.
What I don't like is getting no comments on a photo at all. If it's "an
excruciatingly boring, poor rendering of a banal and cliched subject" I'd
like to know that. If it's technically great but the subject is lacking,
or vice versa, I'd like to know that, too.
I pretty much agree with Rick on this.
I only vaguely recall the issue that Bill and Paul referred to, when a
particularly scathing and personal critique was given. That must be
nudging 8-10 years ago, but it seems to have put a permanent moratorium
on providing full and frank feedback. Can't we move on?
Cheers
Brian
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Brian Walters
Western Sydney Australia
http://lyons-ryan.org/southernlight/
Rick
http://photo.net/photos/RickW
----- Original Message -----
From: William Robb<[email protected]>
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List<[email protected]>
Cc:
Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:06 PM
Subject: Re: Giving and taking criticism
On 25/11/2011 2:18 PM, Larry Colen wrote:
One thing I haven't seen a lot of is discussion on how to give and take
criticism. And a related discussion
of what venues on the net, or off, are good for that sort of discussion.
--
That's because we don't offer criticism here. We had a regular member who
attempted it one time; he was promptly chased off the island.
It put a very real chill on the entire concept of giving an honest
critique of images that get shown here, since any honest critique will
likely have some criticism accompanying it (that being what the word
critique kind of come from.)
I tried to give a critique one time and was told to accept the photograph
on it's own merits, and either accept it for what it was or STFU.
And now you know why most every photograph that is shown here, whether it
be a stunning landscape or a tedious snapshot of a child playing with a
kitten gets, more or less, the same response (great capture, stunning
image, etc) or no comment at all.
Most people don't want a critique, they want an ego massage, and no one
likes to be told that their image is an excruciatingly boring, poor
rendering of a banal and cliched subject.
--
William Robb
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