Frederik, Howard, Lists,
Frederik answered "By the first semiosis" to Howard's question, "When in the history of the universe do you say the *first proposition* occurs?" Frederik, can you speculate on what you think was the first semiosis like ? Would you agree that whatever it was, it must have been an irreducibly triadic process, or a self-organizing chemical reaction-diffusion system, similar to the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction or the artificial Krebs cycle of the Matsuno type? All the best. Sung On Tue, Apr 28, 2015 at 7:04 AM, Frederik Stjernfelt <[email protected]> wrote: > Dear Howard, lists - > > Den 28/04/2015 kl. 12.44 skrev Howard Pattee <[email protected]> > > At 05:18 AM 4/28/2015, Frederik Stjernfelt wrote: > [snip] > > - Dicisigns - applies to biosemiotics as well. To me, this forms part of > a naturalization of semiotics. But, simultaneously, a naturalization which > takes generalities such as empirical universals as well as > mathematics/logic as parts of nature. > > > I have argued that to be consistent with the physicists' view of natural > laws, the *first phenomenon* occurred with the *first self-replication* (as > did the* first self*, the *first semiosis, *and the *first evolvable life*, > etc.). > > > I think we're in agreement here. To me, semiotics and biology are > co-extensive. > > Pansemioticians like Peirce think differently about natural laws and > origins. > > > I do not think Peirce is consistently a pan-semiotician (even if that > tendency can most certainly be found in his work, so can > counter-tendencies). We covered this ground before, did we not? > > > I have three questions about your view: > (1) What "parts of nature" do you include in "naturalization of semiotics"? > > I am not sure I understand the question. I do not think the results of > mathematics are a human invention. I think mathematics is part of nature in > the sense that it contains structures which are as they are without human > agency - no matter whether they have physical realizations or not. They may > be seen as hypothetical or modal in order to avoid naive Platonism. > > (2) Do you think of mathematics and logic as a part of (subset) of > semiotics? > > No. I rather think semiotics is a subset of logic in Peirce's broad > epistemological conception of logic. > > (3) When in the history of the universe do you say the *first proposition* > occurs? > > By the first semiosis. > > Best > Frederik > > > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > [email protected] . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to [email protected] with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > > > -- Sungchul Ji, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Pharmacology and Toxicology Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology Ernest Mario School of Pharmacy Rutgers University Piscataway, N.J. 08855 732-445-4701 www.conformon.net
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