Jeff, Ben,
I’m in agreement with both of you. Determination is an action, and can be either dyadic or triadic; efficient causality, to use the Aristotelian term, is dyadic action. Now, efficient causation does not operate alone, but always in concert with a final cause; or to put it another way, causation is between facts (one fact causes another), and since a fact has the triadic structure of a proposition, causality involves triadic relations. According to Peirce, even dynamic causation ‘must be regarded as rational,’ and ‘exact logical analysis shows dynamic causation (if every element of it be considered) is more than the mere brute force, the dyadic action, that it appears to superficial thinkers to be. For it is governed by law’ (CP 6.329, c.1909). In another 1909 text, CP 6.323, Peirce says that “a triadic relationship is of an essentially higher nature than a dyadic relationship, in the sense that while it involves three dyadic relationships, it is not constituted by them. If A gives B to C, he, A, acts upon B, and acts upon C; and B acts upon C. Perhaps, for example, he lays down B, whereupon C takes B up, and is benefited by A. But these three acts might take place without that essentially intellectual operation of transferring the legal right of possession, which axiomatically cannot be brought about by any pure dyadic relationships whatsoever.” But the involvement of dyadic relationships in a genuine triadic relationship is not optional. As I tried to say (among other things) in my long post last week (http://www.gnusystems.ca/TS/xtn.htm#ndtrm), the dyadic determination of sign by object is essential to indexicality, and thus to the truth of a proposition. Gary f. } The Buddha said many times, "My teaching is like a finger pointing to the moon. Do not mistake the finger for the moon." [Thich Nhat Hanh] { <http://gnusystems.ca/wp/> http://gnusystems.ca/wp/ }{ Turning Signs gateway From: Benjamin Udell [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 7-Apr-16 20:51 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Determination, etc. Jeff, Jon, Gary F., list, As I recall, Peirce regarded relations of reaction and resemblance as "real" relations in the sense that they do not _depend_ on interpretation. Now, reaction is a second, but resemblance is a third (in Peirce's system, as I recall; note that resemblance is not the same thing as quality of feeling). Resemblance is independent of interpretation but relative some mode of apprehension (sensory, intellectual, etc.). It's when an interpretant, or at least a potential interpretant, is involved, that the reaction/resistance becomes indexicality, and the resemblance/correlation becomes iconicity, a kind of portraying. More generally one can say that, in Peirce's view, semiosis involves things essentially triadic, dyadic, and monadic, but _is_ the genuinely triadic. The nice thing about the idea of determination is that it allows one to distinguish representation as involving triadic determination, from reaction/resistance as dyadic determination. (I confess that I don't know what to do with uninterpreted resemblance here). Best, Ben On 4/7/2016 7:27 PM, Jeffrey Brian Downard wrote: Jon, Gary F., List, Jon claims that the kind of determination that is at work in sign action is always triadic in character. He says: "Looking back over many previous discussions on the Peirce List, I think the most important and frequently missed point is that concepts like correspondence and determination in Peirce refer to triadic forms of correspondence and determination, and that these do not reduce to the dyadic structures that are endemic to the more reductionist paradigms." I want to express a few reservations about this blanket statement, and then I'll offer some qualifications for the purpose of articulating an account of determination that fits better (I hope) with what Peirce says in essays such as "On the Logic of Mathematics, an attempt to develop my categories from within" and "Nomenclature and Division of Triadic Relations." It might help if we note a contrast between two different points of view from which we might analyze and attempt to explain what it is for one correlate to be determined by another correlate in a dyadic, triadic or higher order relation. From the point of view in which we are looking at what is involved in sign relations, all such relations might--in one respect or another--be triadic in character. That is, all of the relations of determination that are essential for the success of the semiotic process--including those that appear to be dyadic in character-- are really (in the end, when looked at from the point of the view of successful acts of cognition) parts of larger triadic relations. >From the point of view of the evolution of the parts that come be connected >into larger wholes via sign action, my hunch is that there are dyadic >relations of determination--and these dyadic relations are essential for the >process. That is, over time, these dyadic relations are brought together into >larger complexes. Some of those larger complexes are individual existing >things that are brought together into larger dyadic relations, and some of the >larger complexes are made up of combinations of possibilities, existing >objects and general rules that are brought together into triadic relations. So, the reservation I am expressing can be summarized in the following way: from the point of view of the evolution of the essential parts that make up larger complexes of signs, objects and interpretants, it does not appear to be accurate to the texts to say that the kinds of determination that are essential are all triadic in character. In some cases, it is one existing thing determining another existing thing in some respect or other, and this determination is dyadic in character. That is, the relation can be analyzed in terms of relate A determines correlate B in some respect. There are quite a number of different sorts of dyadic determination, and that is the reason he sorts through them with such care in "On the Logic of Mathematics, an attempt to develop my categories from within." The simplest sort of dyadic determination is for one quality to be contained within another quality (e.g. the feeling of scarlet is contained in the feeling of red). The richest sort of dyadic determination is for one individual thing to be the cause of the existence of another individual thing. This sort of determination is poietical in character.bHere is the qualification I would like to add: over time, as the dyadic relations of determination between individual objects (e.g., a stove in kitchen before us now) and a indexical sinsign (e.g. a parent pointing at the stove) are formed, such dyadic relations of determination come to be part of larger complexes involving relations between possibilities, existing individuals and general rules. As these larger complexes are formed, the dyadic relations come to be parts of larger triadic relations and ultimately, the forms of determination that govern such processes of interpretation are predominately triadic in character. In a paradigmatic kind of case, three relatively separate dyads come to be joined together by a triad--and the kind of determination that governs that process is triadic in character because it is a general rule (e.g., a rule of comparison, a rule of time ordering, an inferential rule, etc.) that supplies the glue that combines and orders the correlates in the resulting triadic relation. As such, I do not believe that, on Peirce's account, all such forms of determination in the processes of representation are essentially triadic in character (e.g., of a token representamen by an existing object, of an immediate object by dynamical object, of a qualisign by immediate object, or of an indexical sinsign by a dynamical object, etc.). Some may evolve from dyadic forms of determination--especially the sort of referential relation that is essential in the last kind of case on the list. Hope that helps, Jeff Jeffrey Downard Associate Professor Department of Philosophy Northern Arizona University (o) 928 523-8354
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