I have spent about 40 years working with hunter-gatherer populations in the Amazon. I have lived among one group, the Pirahãs, for an aggregate of eight years and speak their language, having also written several books and articles about the experience.
My experience matches what Edwina says in (1). They are initially welcoming. But you must make yourself useful to the community. They do not have the luxury of accommodating people who cannot carry their own weight. Dan On Oct 1, 2017, at 1:45 PM, Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: John, list That's an interesting set of comments. I certainly agree that survival alone is impossible but often it's a network of different species rather than just the members of one species. I've a few points: 1] I think that 'primitive' bands will only welcome visitors IF their economic mode is sufficient to support these visitors. That is, If the visit is short-term, the band might acknowledge this short stay; but - if the visitor becomes a settler - this is a different position, for it requires that the current economic method can support the new person - particularly if he is not productive. 2] Certainly, tribes, which have larger populations than small population bands, will not necessarily accept anyone other than a formal short-term visitor; that is, they cannot, economically, readily support the long-term settlement of migrants, immigrants, ...any increase in their population size. 3] Certainly, war is a key method of reducing the population. But famine and disease are other 'natural' methods and can be found repeatedly when a particular economic method is stressed beyond its capacity to produce sustenance. That is, the local small-scale farming methods of Europe's medieval period could not sustain increasing populations and we saw waves of not only wars but also plagues and disease. Eventually, the technology, the actual method of food production had to change [larger farming areas, deep plough, three-field rotation, market exchanges..] - and for technology to change, the individual must be free to think. That is - I am suggesting something else is needed beyond your 'cooperation and conservation'. 4]This thinking had to be based in objective empirical observation - and the basic right and freedom of the individual to doubt, to question, to explore this objective reality and figure out new methods of interaction with the envt, new methods of production, new tools and technology. In that sense, the community has to allow deviations from the norm, has to allow 'dissent', freedom of thought, of speech, and the right-to-question and disagree. Edwina On Sun 01/10/17 1:15 PM , John F Sowa [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> sent: On 10/1/2017 6:59 AM, Stephen C. Rose wrote: > The number of values to which all should subscribe is very few > -- I make them to be tolerance, helpfulness, and democracy in > the widest sense. I agree that those values are both important and universal. But they are complex goals. According to Peirce's insistence on continuity, they should be derivable from something simpler. Among humans in "primitive" societies, the natural tendency is to welcome visitors. And by the way, I put the word 'primitive' in quotes because the so-called primitive societies developed from 100,000 years of experience by Homo sapiens, who built on at least 2 million years of genus Homo, who built on a few billion years of living things. Fundamental principle of life: Survival alone is impossible. Free swimming bacteria are extremely vulnerable, but their chances are immensely better in large colonies. Many plants and animals develop defensive mechanisms and even poisons. But they limit the potency to avoid destroying their ecosystems. The values of tolerance, helpfulness, democracy and other ethical principles can be derived from the fundamental principle: we need our friends and neighbors of all species. Even the ones we fear or despise may have their value for helping some of our friends. However, there is a struggle for existence, especially when the resources are limited. That tends to promote the contrary goals of greed, expulsion of trouble makers, and tribal affiliations to the exclusion or hostility toward other tribes. That counter tendency can be addressed in two ways: (1) reduce population by means of war, or (2) increase resources by means of cooperation and conservation. John ----------------------------- PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .
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