Gary F., List:

Upon further consideration, I would like to make two related amendments to
the latter part of my earlier post.

   - The Phemic Sheet represents the Universe of *Truth*, which need not be
   the Universe of *Actuality*; it "denote[s] that object ... which the
   Graphs, from their very first, find to have been settled upon, by a
*previous
   understanding* between the Graphist and the Interpreter, as that to
   which all their significations must refer" (R 300:71-72[36-37]).
   - Accordingly, two- or even three-dimensional EGs can only denote
   Objects that exist (or not) in *that *Universe, which consists of
   everything that is *already *known to *both *the Graphist and the
   Interpreter by virtue of Collateral Experience--what Peirce elsewhere
   called the *commens *(EP 2:478; 1906)--regardless of which *modal *Universe
   it might inhabit.

Thanks,

Jon S.

On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 11:54 AM Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Gary F., List:
>
> I agree that Peirce ultimately gave up on iconizing modality in
> two-dimensional Gamma EGs, instead settling for the R 514 tutorial that
> only covers Alpha and Beta.  A three-dimensional implementation might be
> more successful in that regard, consistent with his description of the
> Universes as "so utterly different that we may well liken them to a set of
> three mutually perpendicular directions from which any object may be
> viewed" (R 300:72[37]) and as "different dimensions of the logical
> Universe" (R 300:80[37]) whose "mutual relations,--imaged by
> perpendicularities in sets of three,--are relations between different
> Modalities" (R 300:76[38]).  I wonder if he was hinting at this further in
> the following passage from a different manuscript, which I came across
> yesterday.
>
> CSP:  But in one respect at any rate [the system of] Existential Graphs is
> essentially different from language.  Namely, instead of being merely
> protracted in time, its expressions are diagrams upon a surface, and indeed
> must be regarded as only a projection upon that surface of a sign extended
> in three dimensions.  Three dimensions are necessary and sufficient for the
> expression of all assertions; so that, if man's reason was originally
> limited to the line of speech, (which I do not affirm,) it has now outgrown
> the limitation. (R 654:6-7; 1910 Aug 19)
>
>
> I now see even more clearly what you meant about our different
> "approach[es] to Peircean studies" and the danger of "sink[ing] into purely
> terminological issues," so I will not belabor my points about "Universe"
> and "Experience" any further.
>
> I was not "ignoring Peirce’s careful distinction between the [polyadic]
> continuity of the two-dimensional sheet and that [linear continuity] of the
> one-dimensional line," I was commenting on it.  I assume that Peirce was
> quite intentional about specifying that a Line of Identity is *heavily*
> drawn, such that it has a very visible *width *to it, while a Cut is *thinly
> *drawn.  After all, he wrote that the Phemic Sheet represents "the field
> of attention," including "those places where, nothing being scribed, no
> particular attention is paid"; while the Line of Identity, which is
> "generated by the continuity of the different places of a heavy dot,"
> represents "the continuity in attentive observation of an individual
> object" (R 300:39-41[39-40]).  Again, the Line of Identity for an
> individual is *only *continuous because the Phemic Sheet for the Universe
> of Actuality, which underlies it, is *also *(and more fundamentally)
> continuous--except where a Cut creates a *discontinuity*.
>
> I was also not ignoring Peirce's "statement that the three Universes
> cannot be represented by the icons which make up the Graphs, and can only
> be represented by differentiation of the surfaces on which those icons are
> drawn."  I was simply noting his other statement that the differences of
> the three Universes correspond *only *to differences of the *Objects *to
> which the Graphs refer, *not *the propositions as a whole or their
> predicates.  Two-dimensional EGs can only denote Objects that *exist *(or
> not) in the Universe of Actuality.
>
> I look forward to reading what you have to say about Cuts, especially
> given your claim that it "spells trouble for the whole system of EGs."  Are
> you perhaps referring to Peirce's remarks in R 300 about the inadequacy of
> representing "the concept of *Sequence*" as "a composite of two
> Negations"?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon S.
>
> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 7:35 AM <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jon, my responses inserted.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary f.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]>
>> *Sent:* 4-Mar-19 18:05
>> *To:* [email protected]
>> *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] The Bedrock Beneath Pragmaticism
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary F., List:
>>
>> GF:  Is it not remarkable that after working with EGs for over 10 years,
>> including lecturing and publishing about them, he should be so unsure of
>> his ability to describe the System or even state its purpose?
>>
>> JAS: I suspect that it was quite clear in his own mind,
>>
>> GF: Peirce was quite capable of saying what was clear to him and what
>> wasn’t. Your suspicion in this case directly contradicts what Peirce
>> actually says on that point in the sentence I quoted.
>>
>> and the struggle was primarily with how to explain it to others in a way
>> that they could easily understand.  It seems plausible that he felt like he
>> had failed to do so in all of that previous lecturing and publishing.  As
>> John Sowa has repeatedly pointed out, he finally came up with a tutorial on
>> EGs that successfully accomplished this objective the following year
>> (1909), in R 514.
>>
>> GF: Neither in MS 514 nor in any later presentation that I’ve seen does
>> Peirce make any attempt to iconize the three Universes of Capacities,
>> Actualities and Tendencies (by using different surfaces and “provinces”).
>> He explains in the draft of MS 300 what motivated his 1906 attempt to do
>> that (in the “Prolegomena”) and why that attempt is clearly inadequate,
>> especially in its iconicity. That’s why I say that Peirce abandoned the
>> gamma graphs — which he had said in 1903 were far more important than the
>> alpha and beta. That leaves us with a system which, as John S. has pointed
>> out repeatedly, is logically equivalent to his earlier algebraic notation,
>> rather than being a major improvement on it as Peirce had hoped (until
>> 1908). This could also explain why Peirce abandoned the attempt to base his
>> proof of pragmaticism on EGs.
>>
>> GF:  This is what the Graphs and their transformations are about: the
>> Universe of Discourse, or simply the Universe. This Universe is to
>> discourse as the phaneron is to experience.
>>
>> JAS:I agree with the first statement, but not the second; as I already
>> stated, I believe instead that the three Universes are to Experience as the
>> three Categories are to the Phaneron.
>>
>> GF: You are trying to regularize Peirce’s usage of the term “Universe” by
>> ignoring its actual context in MS 300. When in doubt about what a term 
>> *denotes
>> *(as we usually are with common nouns), the context is the main clue for
>> directing our attention, as Peirce himself points out.
>>
>> The Phaneron consists of whatever could be *presented *to the mind,
>> while Experience consists of whatever is *urged *to the mind; in other
>> words, there is a *compulsive *aspect of the latter that is lacking, or
>> at least less prominent, in the former.
>>
>> GF: Now you are ignoring the contextual use of the term “Experience” in
>> this part of MS 300. I see this as a recurring problem with your attempt to
>> regularize Peirce’s terminology, especially in respect to terms which were
>> *not* neologisms but common philosophical terms.
>>
>> GF:  I call this triad of Universes (or subuniverses of the one Universe)
>> phenomenological because they are different ways in which the Universe
>> “makes its power felt” experientially.
>>
>> Again, I worry that this conflates phenomena in their 1ns (Phaneron) with
>> phenomena in their 2ns (Experience), since I associate such forcefulness
>> primarily with the latter--although reaction as 2ns is obviously one of the
>> irreducible elements that we directly observe in the former.  The "Outward
>> Clash" that ultimately leads us to the hypothesis of Reality (cf. CP 8.41;
>> 1885) is a matter of *actual *Experience, not just *possible 
>> *"seeming"--which
>> is why it is studied in Normative Logic as Semeiotic, rather than
>> Phaneroscopy.  At least, that is how I see it right now.
>>
>> GF:   The three Universes correspond in logic to the modalities of the
>> propositions represented by the Graphs.
>>
>> JAS: That is not what Peirce wrote in the quoted passage.
>>
>> GF: No, it is an inference from what Peirce wrote, based on his writings
>> about EGs and modality in 1906-08.
>>
>> CSP:   It is clear that their differences are not differences of the
>> predicates, or significations, of the graphs, but of the predetermined
>> objects to which the graphs are intended to refer. (R 300:38-39)
>>
>> The different Universes do not correspond to the modalities of the 
>> *propositions
>> *represented, nor their Interpretants as signified by their *predicates*,
>> but rather their Objects as denoted by their *subjects*--which, as you
>> noted, must already be known to both Graphist and Interpreter from previous
>> Collateral Experience.  In EGs, these subjects are represented by the 
>> *heavily
>> *drawn Lines of Identity, whose continuity is derived from that of the
>> underlying surface of the Sheet of Assertion,
>>
>> GF: Here you are ignoring Peirce’s careful distinction between the
>> continuity of the two-dimensional sheet and that of the one-dimensional
>> line, which makes a difference in what they can represent iconically; also
>> his statement that the three Universes cannot be represented by the icons
>> which make up the Graphs, and can only be represented by differentiation of
>> the surfaces on which those icons are drawn.
>>
>> which represents the Universe--just like the continuity of a white chalk
>> line is derived from that of the clean blackboard on which it is marked
>> (cf. CP 6:203; 1898).  The *thinly *drawn line of a Cut is then a 
>> *discontinuity
>> *between the Universe of Truth (*recto*) and the Universe of Falsity (
>> *verso*), which is why in a Ligature the Line of Identity *inside *a Cut
>> must be understood as distinct from the one *outside *it.
>>
>> GF: Peirce does not deal with the cuts in the text I quoted, but he does
>> in other parts of the “Bedrock,” in a way that spells trouble for the whole
>> system of EGs. I’ll have to deal with that in a separate post.
>>
>> GF:  Jon, since I think your approach to Peircean studies is rather
>> different from mine, I haven’t responded to your post in detail, lest we
>> sink into purely terminological issues.
>>
>> Understood, although I hope that this post helps clarify the relevance of
>> my previous one.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA
>>
>> Professional Engineer, Amateur Philosopher, Lutheran Layman
>>
>> www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt - twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>>
>
-----------------------------
PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON PEIRCE-L 
to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to [email protected] . To 
UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L but to [email protected] with the 
line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the BODY of the message. More at 
http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm .




Reply via email to