I have always had trouble with Peirce's universes. I am awash in theories
and accounts and descriptions from everywhere because I spend time
listening to and reading this and that. Multiple universes. Untold size of
all. I sense Peirce could be talking about universe in a sense of a pocket
or area of this or that. If that is so that is simply a way of talking
about relative things. I could say Tolerance Helpfulness and Democracy are
not simply terms I suggest to suggest a range of ethical reflection but
universes of human response to the elements of this Ethics triad. Universe
implies all and I can live with universality as the All  we can approach
but not fully fathom, etc. But when Peirce posits three I wonder what he
means. I really pass them by.


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On Sat, May 18, 2019 at 3:51 PM John F Sowa <[email protected]> wrote:

> On 5/18/2019 12:30 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt wrote:
> > If someone wishes to claim that a particular statement is being
> > taken out of context, then that person has the burden of showing
> > that this is the case, not merely /asserting/ it.
>
> Absolutely!  That is an essential part of the methodeutic.
>
> > what I see is a Percept that has no parts, which I then interpret
> > by prescinding predicates and abstracting subjects to formulate
> > the Propositional Judgment, "That is a rock.
>
> No. That claim is another example of ignoring the full context.
> Note that the great majority of Peirce's examples of signs are
> physical things.
>
> Also look at the eleven senses of the word 'sign' that Peirce
> defined for the Century Dictionary.  Each one defines 'sign'
> as a physical thing.  None of them mentions the word 'percept'.
>
> If Peirce's technical sense of the word 'sign' were inconsistent
> with *every* sense by everybody (including himself in nontechnical
> usage), that would be a gross violation of his ethics of terminology.
>
> > if the entire Universe--i.e., all three Universes of Experience,
> > taken together--is a Sign, then what is its Object?  Clearly it
> > cannot be anything within any or all of the three Universes,
> > so it must be something outside them.
>
> Wait a minute.  In the paragraph above, you denied that physical things
> can be signs.  And in this one, you claim that the physical universe is
> a sign.  You can't have it both ways.
>
> In any case, Peirce said "all this universe is perfused with signs, if
> it is not composed exclusively of signs" (CP 5.448).  The word 'perfuse'
> is rare:  it only occurs once in CP.  The clause beginning with 'if'
> is tentative, and being composed of signs is not the same as being
> a sign.   Nothing about that quotation is clear, and Peirce did not
> mention God or any aspect of God in the surrounding context.
>
> Finally, since 5.448 is silent about God, a Satanist could take your
> argument, replace every occurrence of the word 'God' with the word
> 'Satan' and conclude that Satan is the creator.  The ability to
> derive two contradictory propositions Q and not-Q from P is a
> reductio ad absurdum that demonstrates the falsehood of P.
>
> > To make bald assertions without offering any supporting
> > argumentation violates every principle of responsible scholarship.
>
> I'm delighted that you agree.
>
> And as we have seen, there is no supporting argumentation
> for the claim that CP 5.448 implies that God is the creator.
>
> As Stephen said, "Enough already."
>
> John
>
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