List: Please see my post below. I suppose that someone might quibble with "disembodied spirit" vs. "disembodied mind," but in one of those two quotations that I already provided, Peirce explicitly equates "disembodied spirit" with "pure mind."
I could also point out his multiple statements to the effect that mind is primordial while matter is derived and special, which obviously entails that mind is possible without matter (but not vice versa). However, I know from experience that it would just prompt another series of tiresome and fruitless debates about whether his *objective *idealism is a version of idealism or something different altogether. I have no desire to go down that road yet again. Regards, Jon On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 9:32 PM Edwina Taborsky <[email protected]> wrote: > JAS< list > > Would you please show us where Peirce says that Mind can function without > embodiment? My understanding of Peirce is that he was not a Platonist - and > therefore there are no ‘pure or immaterial forms’; ie, no separate Mind; > instead, matter and mind are correlates. > > See 6.78; 6.158 [where matter is Mind hidebound with habits’’ ; and ’the > universe of mind which coincides with the universe of matter’ 6.501. see > also 4.551 where thought doesn’t function only via a brain .. > > That is, my understanding is that there is no ‘Pure or disembodied Mind’ . > Mind requires embodiment. And most certainly, consciousness is not an > attribute of Mind. [Note: Peirce talks about plants and biological > organisms operating with the actions of ‘Mind’. - which actions can also be > understood as the Mode of Thirdness. > > Edwina > > On Sep 20, 2024, at 9:49 PM, Jon Alan Schmidt <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Jeff, List: > > Again, it is highly misleading to characterize theism as conceiving God to > be "entirely separate from the evolving cosmos." > > As for your specific question, the classical theistic arguments for the > reality of God typically include, as one of their deductive conclusions, > that God *must *be immaterial. Peirce himself says that God as *Ens > necessarium* is a "disembodied spirit, or pure mind" (CP 6.490, 1908); > and as I have emphasized repeatedly, by his own testimony, when he refers > to God as "mind" he is using that term vaguely, figuratively, loosely, and > analogously. Moreover ... > > CSP: Since God, in His essential character of *Ens necessarium*, is a > disembodied spirit, and since there is strong reason to hold that what we > call consciousness is either merely the general sensation of the brain or > some part of it, or at all events some visceral or bodily sensation, God > probably has no consciousness. (CP 6.489) > > > So, Peirce seems to hold that embodiment is necessary for consciousness, > but not for mind; and he complains elsewhere (at some length) about > psychologists routinely confusing the two (CP 7.364-367, 1902). > > Regards, > > Jon Alan Schmidt - Olathe, Kansas, USA > Structural Engineer, Synechist Philosopher, Lutheran Christian > www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt > <http://www.linkedin.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt> / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt > > On Fri, Sep 20, 2024 at 5:25 PM Jeffrey Brian Downard < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Colleagues, >> >> >> >> If I step back from the philosophical inquiries and think about questions >> concerning the nature of the divine in a more commonsense manner, the >> following question comes to mind. Normally, I think minds, thoughts and >> representations need—in some sense—to be embodied to have the power to >> govern, create, etc. >> >> >> >> Does the same apply to the conception of a Divine Mind that is infinite >> and perfect? I suspect those who are attracted to some form of pantheism or >> panentheism may think this is one consideration in favor of conceiving of >> the Mind of God as being embodied the universe, which is its body. >> >> >> >> Do theists who hold God is entirely separate from the evolving cosmos >> hold that the Mind of God is embodied in something else, or do they think >> such a perfect mind needs no embodiment? >> >> >> >> Yours, >> >> >> >> Jeff >> >
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