In response to James Devine:
The irony of careerism is not that some people on this list have careers, are sacrificing their principles, or are trying to rise etc., but that the term "careerist" was applied to Communists (by this term, I mean people who are known to be or publicly associate with the Communist movement, not the small c). Outside of countries like Cuba or China where Communist Parties are the ruling parties, being a Communist doesn't help one's career unless I'm missing something.
I wish people would stop using this rhetorical trick of dismissing others' views as "fashionable" or "in >fashion."
You have a good point here, but I don't see a strong necessity of pointing out obvious differences between Vietnam and Iraq (the fashion of saying Iraq is like Vietnam was the point I made--presumablyt I don't have to quote any of the articles that appear daily on this?). And the comaprison has been prevalent in the peace movement and on the left.
There's also the trick of not naming the people I'm arguing with (those who are "only interested [in] >seeing the U.S. suffer military defeats"), an amorphous and undefined "that western left." Thus their >position doesn't have to be defined, quoted, or even argued against.
I assumed that we are reading the same posts to this list and that quotations aren't necessary. Obviously we all (and I include myself) don't read the 40 or 50 e-mails that appear each day in our in-folder. I will try to be more specific in my future posts.
In response, however, I find it interesting that you chose my post to make your points about "rhetorical tricks" as vague, combative, overgeneralizing, tricky rhetoric seems to be the rule rather than the exception on this list. I agree that I haven't been an ideal participant, but ever since my first post, I/my posts have been subjected to the very sort thing you have cited my post as being an example of--which is fine. Who am I afterall, right?
Thanks for your insights,
Joel Wendland
_________________________________________________________________ Getting married? Find tips, tools and the latest trends at MSN Life Events. http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=married
