Marx and Engels never used the concept 'socialist State'. I think that in our attempt to avoid writing recipes for the bistros of the future, we may tend to forget where we came from in terms of our critiques of Capital.
Carrol wrote: "This, incidentally, touches on my reasons for arguing socialist should not try to present a "scenario" or "model" or "plan" for a future socialist state. We can speak of some of its general goals as a form of the critique of capitalism, but scenario's presuppose the ability to predict human activity and response under totally different conditions and after events & struggles which are equally unpredictable. The abolition of labor as a goal makes sense precisely because it would be nothing new. Assuming (what is by no means certain) that we can overcome capitalist relations and capitalist power, our descendants will have a great horselaugh at any recipes for the future we concoct." Point of information: Socialists worth their Marxist theoretical salt want to abolish 'wage-labour', indeed the establishment of socialism a la Marx and Engels critique of Capital would translate into the abolition of classes, the political State and the end of commodity production. This much we CAN plan for and speculate amongst ourselves about. Planning amongst the producers is and will be essential for the establishment of that freer society we call socialism. If we haven't absorbed these notions, we remain pawns in the spectacle of the latest pigs vs. theoretically blind freaks position games. Mike B) "What are the mistakes committed by the piecemeal reformers, who either want to raise wages and in this way to improve the situation of the working class, or regard equality of wages (as Proudhon does) as the goal of social revolution?" WAGE LABOUR AND CAPITAL "Indeed, even the equality of wages demanded by Proudhon only transforms the relationship of the present-day worker to his labour into the relationship of all men to labour. Society is then conceived as an abstract capitalist. "Wages are a direct consequence of estranged labour, and estranged labour is the direct cause of private property. The downfall of the one aspect must therefore mean the downfall of the other." Marx ECONOMIC AND PHILOSOPHIC MANUSCRIPTS "One form of wage labour may correct the abuses of another, but no form of wage labour can correct the abuse of wage labour itself." GRUNDRISSE by Karl Marx Finally, there is no doubt that the credit system will serve as a powerful lever during the transition from the capitalist mode of production to the mode of production of associated labour; but only as one element in connection with other great organic revolutions of the mode of production itself. On the other hand, the illusions concerning the miraculous power of the credit and banking system, in the socialist sense, arise from a complete lack of familiarity with the capitalist mode of production and the credit system as one of its forms. As soon as the means of production cease being transformed into capital (which also includes the abolition of private property in land), credit as such no longer has any meaning. This, incidentally, was even understood by the followers of Saint-Simon. On the other hand, as long as the capitalist mode of production continues to exist, interest-bearing capital, as one of its forms, also continues to exist and constitutes in fact the basis of its credit system. Only that sensational writer, Proudhon, who wanted to perpetuate commodity-production and abolish money, was capable of dreaming up the monstrous crèdit gratuit, the ostensible realization of the pious wish of the petty-bourgeois estate. CAPITAL Volume III, chapter 36 *********************************************************************** Wobbly Times http://wobblytimes.blogspot.com/ _______________________________________________ pen-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.csuchico.edu/mailman/listinfo/pen-l
