Jim, obviously rising prices are part of the peak oil story.  I assumed everyone
understood it.

I don't see any question about the inevitability of peak oil -- just the 
timing.  In
our discussions, the same names come up -- Hubbard, Deffeyes -- people argue 
whether
they are (un)reliable sources or not.  For that reason, I suggested that the
discussion might not be productive unless we have new information.


On Sat, Sep 08, 2007 at 02:08:32PM -0700, Jim Devine wrote:
> On 9/8/07, Michael Perelman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We have been over this ground many times.
>
> Right. But I don't see any problem in discussing it.
>
> > Peak oil is a prediction and a certainty.
>
> No it isn't. It's a little like the story of Achilles and the
> tortoise, with A never actually catching up with the T. But it's more
> real-world and not based on a logical fallacy. The higher oil prices
> get relative to other fuels, the more users will substitute for oil --
> or economize on its use -- and the more economies will slow down.  All
> of that means that the demand for oil and petro-products will slow,
> keeping oil prices from going up too far. There are economic forces
> keeping A from catching up with the T. (High prices also encourage
> more exploration for oil, more efficient use of currently-known
> reserves, and the like, but I ignored that in order to take the
> absolute limit on the supply side as a premise.)
>
> If we actually "run out of oil" (or, much more likely, get somewhere
> closer to that), it won't be because of the natural limits on the
> supply of oil. Instead it will happen because of the "natural"
> tendency for capitalism to surge ahead, to go too far, to
> over-accumulate capital.
>
> As I've said before, I _hope_ the available supply of oil has attained
> its peak. That is, I hope that the supply has become extremely
> inelastic both in the short-run and the long-run. That would encourage
> substitution and economizing. It might even stop global warming in its
> tracks. Those are things we need to do to help us minimize the extent
> of global warming.
>
> In fact, high oil prices should be made artificially higher, by
> raising taxes on oil. This must be linked with refundable tax credits
> for the poor and/or mass investment in mass transit.
>
> > We as economists should know that some things are inevitable -- depleting a 
> > fixed
> > stock will eventually create a peak, but we have no real proof of the exact 
> > time.
>
> I don't think so. See above. It's not nature that messes up our lives.
> Rather, it's capitalism (and other class modes of production) which
> misuses nature and misuses people.
> --
> Jim Devine / "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not
> an act, but a habit." -- Aristotle.

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
michaelperelman.wordpress.com

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