Michael, I want to stop it at the beginning.  Still, as Doug said, these
are not flame issues, and I don't think anyone is using personal insults
as a substitute for arguing the issues.

It's OK with me if it stops, but equally OK with serious discussion
continues.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Peak Everything


> Please stop this!
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 09, 2007 at 10:53:24AM -0400, sartesian wrote:
> > I hardly know where to begin, given the amount of misinformation,
and
> > misconstruction of facts and theories in your post, but........
> >
> > 1. Super-giant fields explored.  This is unknown.  There are those
in
> > the industry who argue that only the surface super-giants have been
> > explored.  Western Iraq may hold reserves equal to all currently
known
> > reserves in Iraq.   Then again it may not.
> >
> > But either way-- the supposed negative correlation of field sizes
and
> > dates  of discovery is another of the peak oil mis-theories.
> >
> > 2.  "My solution" is precisely not to "throw money," mostly because
> > there is  no evidence that peak oil is a problem, that peak oil is
> > driving any single aspect of capitalist activity.  The invasion of
Iraq,
> > and the planned invasion of Iran, had and have absolutely nothing to
do
> > with declining supplies.  Rather, the invasion, like the OPEC price
run
> > ups, have everything to do with declining rates of return and
> > overproduction of oil, where the ease and reduced cost of production
> > caused the  price collapse of 1998.  Since then, it's all been about
the
> > petroleum majors  aggrandizing more profit.  Check the portion of
total
> > profits reported by S&P 500 that is actually claimed by the
petroleum
> > companies.
> >
> > 3. As far as devaluing our currency and everyone getting bailed out
with
> > valueless dollar-- first, it's not my currency, and I couldn't give
a
> > rat's ass if and when it gets devalued, overvalued, undervalued, and
or
> > goes to zero.   But as far as this mythology of the US valueless
> > dollars, and its fiat money, and its now looming weakness in the
face of
> > BRIC (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and why not Japan, another big
> > holder of US currency instruments?)-- that's just that, a mythology.
> >
> > People should look at Bernake's address in 2005 about the global
savings
> > gluts-- and keep in mind that since 2001, US industries, US
producers,
> > have spent far less of their earnings on investment and capital
> > expansion, than they have retained to their own accounts.  The
> > "unlocking" of US housing equity to finance the "expansion" of the
> > economy, is based on that fact, as the quickening of US household
debt
> > was financed to replaced US corporate investment, and provide the
market
> > for our now so much "stronger" trading partners.
> >
> > The other component of this is the rapid and dramatic swing of the
US
> > govt accounts from surplus to deficit-- a swing of some 7% of GNP in
> > about 2 years, as once again, reduced taxes and expanded military
> > spending put the retainer in retained earnings.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "The Buffalo In Da' Midst"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2007 9:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [PEN-L] Peak Everything
> >
> >
> > > On 9/8/07, sartesian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > How about it?  How about  this:  Reserves, are by definition an
> > economic
> > > > category not geological.  By definitions reserves are an amount
of
> > oil
> > > > that can be produced in a specified period of time, using the
> > currently
> > > > available technology, and at a profit.
> > > >
> > > >  You should look it up.
> > > >
> > > > The fact that every single peak oil theorist and advocate either
> > > > ignores, obscures, or  is simply unaware of the definition of
> > reserves
> > > > tells us all we really need to know about the theory, the
theorists,
> > its
> > > > inevitability, and where the butter is on the bread.
> > > >
> > >
> > > I'm aware of what reserves are, and the structure of geological
> > > formations that allow FOR the creation of oil to fill those
reserves
> > > (...all found, with ALL KNOWN super-giant field explored, except
> > > perhaps the planetary poles) and the difficulty the oil companies
are
> > > going to have replenishing those reserves with increasingly
smaller
> > > geological formations that DON'T replenish either... at least not
for
> > > a loooooooong time.
> > >
> > > If your solution is 'throw money into exploration, development &
> > > recovery', the Iraq (and perhaps soon-to-be Iran) war, and the
ongoing
> > > strife in Nigeria and other parts of Africa are an example of the
> > > expenditures in cash (almost a half-trillion dollars for Iraq
> > > currently) & social stability (MEND or some other player will
> > > eventually destroy the Nigerian government unless the U.S. wants
to
> > > 'Somalia' them at another massive cost of war), then tell me how
the
> > > oil companies would recoup their investment?
> > >
> > > Pass it on to the consumer buying increasingly expensive oil into
an
> > > decreasingly valued dollar?
> > >
> > > I'm assuming of course that the continuation of wars made
blatantly
> > > for the sole purpose of acquiring oil will devalue our currency
and
> > > cause major sociological disturbances that will disrupt
consumption
> > > patterns as well.
> > >
> > > ...or does everyone just get bailed out finally with valueless
> > dollars?
> > >
> > > lcm
> > >
>
> --
> Michael Perelman
> Economics Department
> California State University
> Chico, CA 95929
>
> Tel. 530-898-5321
> E-Mail michael at ecst.csuchico.edu
> michaelperelman.wordpress.com
>

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