From: Craig Ringer 
We could help ORMs solve the N+1 SELECTs problem and help them avoid 
transferring vast join projections unnecessarily. That'd make PostgreSQL pretty 
compelling for exactly the users we're mostly too busy dismissing to consider.

I'd be interested in reaching out to some Hibernate/JPA and ActiveRecord folks 
about how the DB could help the ORM and have been meaning to explore this area 
for a while, but -ENOTIME. If anyone pursues it I'll be really interested in 
hearing how things go.

You have various ideas and experience, don't you?
Are those ideas on ORMs beneficial exclusively to PostgreSQL or to all DBMSs?  
I don't know the structure of ORMs allows for improvements to be advantageous 
to a specific DBMS.

From: Craig Ringer 
When you consider the adoption of PostgreSQL in the Rails/ActiveRecord crowd I 
think there's some interesting potential there. What there isn't is funding 

Yes, this needs investigation.  But I'm not sure Ruby ecosystem is the world 
where PostgreSQL should go.  Do many users of commercial databases have assets 
based on Ruby which they want to continue to use?

Recently, my colleague, a Ruby committer, told me that Ruby may be losing 
momentum because developers are moving toward JavaScript+Node.js.  Addressing 
JavaScript+Node.js ecosystem may be more beneficial to PostgreSQL popularity.

From: Craig Ringer 
Besides, in practice, we probably should increase the number of software 
interoperable with PostgreSQL.  e.g. one customer asked us whether Arcserve can 
be used to back up PostgreSQL databases, but unfortunately we had to answer no. 
 They are using Arcserve to back up Oracle databases and other resources.  
"Then, you can use NetVault instead" is not the best answer; they just want to 
replace the database.

The "we" here is the problem. It's not likely to be folks focused on PostgreSQL 
core dev, but ... who, exactly?

I simply meant PostgreSQL developers and users (of course, including me) who 
wish PostgreSQL to become more popular and thrive for a long time.  Most users 
use databases combined with applications (not just the DBMS alone), so 
increasing the number of applications supporting PostgreSQL will attract more 
users.  PostgreSQL developers will gain wider market and business/job 

From: Craig Ringer 
Provide technical assistance to those vendors as an organization so that they 
can support PostgreSQL smoothly.

This one is a help. That said, pgsql-general is pretty helpful already...


From: Craig Ringer 
* Make a directory of software/services that can be used with PostgreSQL on the 
community web site ( or
Software/services vendors and PostgreSQL developers/users can edit this 

I thought we had that? Yep.

It's pretty invisible though, partly due to the landing page's 
need for a trim-down and tidy. (Don't even get me started on )

Thanks, I know the page.  It totally slipped off my head.  Yes, I'm afraid the 
path to the page (Home -> Download -> Software Catalog) is not good.

From: Craig Ringer 
* How/Where can we get the knowledge of expanding the software ecosystem?  Is 
there any OSS project that we can learn from?


... and tell me which you'd look over first if you were evaluating things.

Yes, I want something like a site map.  But I couldn't find information about 
software supporting MongoDB within a few minutes, and I gave up.  MongoDB 
website may not be necessarily nice.

In that respect, MySQL website is good, because "Partners" link is on the home 
page.  PostgreSQL website can also have "Related software" or something like 
that on the home page.

From: Craig Ringer 
How can we attract software vendors to support PostgreSQL?  What words are 
convincing to appeal the increasing potential of PostgreSQL as a good 
replacement for commercial databases?

Change the name :p

Sorry, I couldn't catch the implication.  Do you mean changing the name 
PostgreSQL to something else, or just a joke?


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