Hi Theo

I find your statements about Postgres being a huge business risk pretty 
laughable. First of all, Postgres is based on SQL92 and SQL99 standards which 
means that most scripts are pretty much the same compared to MSSQL and Oracle. 
The only thing I have seen to learn are the postgres datatypes. Big deal! 
PGAdmin III will write most scripts for you and that too is pretty much free. I 
dealt with it when we started learning and using postgres. I only had 
experience in Oracle and MSSQL. 

Also comparing Postgres to MYSQL is also pretty funny, since there are 
instances of MYSQL LOSING databases due to corruption because they do not have 
PITR and their transaction rollback feature did not work properly last time I 
checked. This is really a issue of people being close minded to great database 
software and not being able to sell it to their superiors. 

This is the way I sold postgres to my boss. It is opensource (low cost), all 
the features of MSSQL and then some, WAY FASTER than MSSQL on a BSD platform, 
very good recovery when the database gets corrupted (this happens to all 
databases from user error usually), and lastly you can always migrate the data 
to another database if you don't like postgres in the end.

John Zubac

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Theo
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 5:20 PM
To: Joshua D. Drake
Cc: Theo Schlossnagle; Mark Kirkwood; David Fetter; Iannsp;
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] About PostgreSQL certification

On Jan 23, 2007, at 5:14 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

>> Get a CCIE and tell me that again :-)  When you are handed a  
>> complicated
>> network of routers and switches running all sorts of version of  
>> IOS and
>> CatOS and you go to lunch, they break it and you have a certain time
>> allotment to fix it all.
>> Most certifications are not simple multiple choice quizes.  Just the
>> ones you hear about -- the ones that suck.
>>> I think seeing relevant training courses + experience on a CV trumps
>>> certification anytime - unfortunately a lot of folks out there are
>>> mesmerized by shiny certificates....
>> Sure. But experience is very hard to get.  And since people with
>> PostgreSQL experience are limited, companies adopting it need a good
>> second option -- certified people.
> They aren't limited, just all employed ;)

I can't find 500, let alone 1000, people with extensive postgresql  
experience in an enterprise environment.  Oracle has an order of  
magnitude more.  MySQL even has better numbers than postgres in this  
arena.  If you only want to hire people with extensive experience,  
you're exposing yourself to an enormous business risk by adopting  
postgres.  You'd have to hire out to a consulting company and if too  
many do that, the consulting company will have scaling issues (as all  

The upside of Oracle is that I can hire out to a consulting company  
for some things (particularly challenging scale or recovery issues)  
and get someone who knows their way around Oracle reasonably well  
(has performed _real_ disaster recovery in a hands on fashion,  
performed hands-on query tuning, database sizing exercises, etc.) by  
simply finding someone who is Oracle certified (all of those things  
are part of the Oracle certification process).  Granted, just because  
someone is certified doesn't mean they "fit" or will excel at the  
problems you give them -- it's just a nice lower bar.  Granted you  
can make a name for yourself as an expert without getting a  
certification, but if you've made a name for yourself, you aren't  
likely to be on the job market -- which is really my point.  Oracle's  
certification programs have helped Oracle considerably in gaining the  
number of Oracle professionals in the job market.  PostgreSQL  
certification has the opportunity to do the same and in doing so  
increase overall PostgreSQL adoption.  That's a good thing.


// Theo Schlossnagle
// CTO -- http://www.omniti.com/~jesus/
// OmniTI Computer Consulting, Inc. -- http://www.omniti.com/

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