There is an old vision paper and we will revisit it.
Stef
Le 16/1/15 09:44, kilon alios a écrit :
"I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is
more ambitious than the Smalltalk one"
I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is
the official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development
team agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them
discussed here or anywhere on the internet.
I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent.
It offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not
call my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to
python coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it
first came out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart
from anything remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has
been embraced in several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer
and closer.
It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most
popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases.
Its a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths.
I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired"
its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending
hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code
, your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby
can call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me
a very flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that
believe this, its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows
me weakness.
I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern
Smalltalk implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk
philosophy and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk
"less ambitious" , why ? Innovativing more than any other language
have done so , is not ambitious enough for you ?
I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would
prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever
makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of
others, especially when you base your success on their success. And
yes I will dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in
many fronts , far more than Pharo currently is.
PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other
people mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has
been miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how
popular they will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language
with continuously expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point
out how hype does not help and there was tons of hype when Java
allowed for the creation of those languages. Jython for example is one
of the oldest Java languages (2001), and there was tons of hype when
the project started that Jython could become at worst an equal to
Cpython on terms of popularity and even more popular than Java at
best. Sun even funded the development of Jython back in 2008.
I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that
has been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a
competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one
we live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even
Pharo never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30
years I wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and
not what it may become.
