thanks Richard. On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 8:11 AM, horrido <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm moving all discussions related to the Smalltalk Renaissance Program to > the *Pharo Smalltalk Users* forum where I think it more properly belongs. > > My original reasoning for choosing the *Pharo Smalltalk Developers* forum > was because I wanted to reach out to /the developer community who are a > vital part of the campaign/. But I suppose this forum should be reserved > strictly for Pharo-specific development issues. > > The Pharo Smalltalk Users forum sounds more general in nature. That's where > we should be talking about Smalltalk and the PR campaign. > > > Marcus Denker-4 wrote > > I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing list… > > > >> On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios < > > > kilon.alios@ > > > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> "I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more > >> ambitious than the Smalltalk one" > >> > >> I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is > the > >> official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team > >> agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed > >> here or anywhere on the internet. > >> > >> I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. > It > >> offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call > >> my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python > >> coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came > >> out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything > >> remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced > in > >> several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer. > >> > >> It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most > >> popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its > >> a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths. > >> > >> I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired" > >> its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending > >> hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code , > >> your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can > >> call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very > >> flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this, > >> its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness. > >> > >> I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk > >> implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy > >> and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less > ambitious" > >> , why ? Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is > not > >> ambitious enough for you ? > >> > >> I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would > >> prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever > >> makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others, > >> especially when you base your success on their success. And yes I will > >> dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , > far > >> more than Pharo currently is. > >> > >> PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other > people > >> mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been > >> miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they > >> will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously > >> expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does > >> not help and there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation > of > >> those languages. Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages > >> (2001), and there was tons of hype when the project started that Jython > >> could become at worst an equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and > even > >> more popular than Java at best. Sun even funded the development of > >> Jython back in 2008. > >> > >> I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that > has > >> been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a > >> competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we > >> live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even > Pharo > >> never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I > >> wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it > >> may become. > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > View this message in context: > http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4800113.html > Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at > Nabble.com. > >
