I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing list…
> On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> "I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more
> ambitious than the Smalltalk one"
>
> I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is the
> official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team agree on
> ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed here or anywhere
> on the internet.
>
> I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. It
> offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call my
> experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python coding.
> Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came out , so many
> new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything remotely similar.
> But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced in several fronts ,
> languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer.
>
> It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most popular
> languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its a really
> long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths.
>
> I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired" its an
> insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending hours making
> code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code , your at best
> "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can call itself
> "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very flawed mentality
> inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this, its shows me fear , its
> shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness.
>
> I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk
> implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy and
> moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less ambitious" , why ?
> Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is not ambitious
> enough for you ?
>
> I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would prefer
> it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever makes you
> happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others, especially when
> you base your success on their success. And yes I will dare say it ,
> Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , far more than Pharo
> currently is.
>
> PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other people
> mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been
> miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they will
> become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously expanding
> communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does not help and
> there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation of those languages.
> Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages (2001), and there was
> tons of hype when the project started that Jython could become at worst an
> equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and even more popular than Java at
> best. Sun even funded the development of Jython back in 2008.
>
> I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that has
> been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a competitive
> product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we live now. I do
> believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even Pharo never makes it to
> the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I wont lose my sleep over
> it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it may become.
>
>
