Yes call it Pharo-Talk :)
Le 16/1/15 10:58, Marcus Denker a écrit :
I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing list…
On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
"I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is
more ambitious than the Smalltalk one"
I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is
the official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development
team agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them
discussed here or anywhere on the internet.
I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that
diffirent. It offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but
I would not call my experience coding with pharo
radically different compared to python coding. Smalltalk used to be
the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came out , so many new concepts
and ideas that were far apart from anything remotely similar. But
nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced in several fronts ,
languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer.
It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most
popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases.
Its a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths.
I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk
inspired" its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by
spending hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by
forking code , your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you
Smalltalk. Ruby can call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot.
This shows to me a very flawed mentality inside the heads of those
Pharoers that believe this, its shows me fear , its shows me
embarrassment, it shows me weakness.
I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern
Smalltalk implementation as a project that lives true to the
Smalltalk philosophy and moves forward. Instead here we are calling
Smalltalk "less ambitious" , why ? Innovativing more than any other
language have done so , is not ambitious enough for you ?
I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would
prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever
makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of
others, especially when you base your success on their success. And
yes I will dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in
many fronts , far more than Pharo currently is.
PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other
people mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme
has been miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how
popular they will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language
with continuously expanding communities . I was merely wanted to
point out how hype does not help and there was tons of hype when Java
allowed for the creation of those languages. Jython for example is
one of the oldest Java languages (2001), and there was tons of hype
when the project started that Jython could become at worst an equal
to Cpython on terms of popularity and even more popular than Java at
best. Sun even funded the development of Jython back in 2008.
I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that
has been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a
competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one
we live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but
even Pharo never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even
in 30 years I wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it
is, and not what it may become.
