I'm moving all discussions related to the Smalltalk Renaissance Program to the *Pharo Smalltalk Users* forum where I think it more properly belongs.
My original reasoning for choosing the *Pharo Smalltalk Developers* forum was because I wanted to reach out to /the developer community who are a vital part of the campaign/. But I suppose this forum should be reserved strictly for Pharo-specific development issues. The Pharo Smalltalk Users forum sounds more general in nature. That's where we should be talking about Smalltalk and the PR campaign. Marcus Denker-4 wrote > I think we *really* need a smalltalk-talk mailing list… > >> On 16 Jan 2015, at 05:44, kilon alios < > kilon.alios@ > > wrote: >> >> >> "I would like to remind people that the aim of the Pharo project is more >> ambitious than the Smalltalk one" >> >> I would like to hear this grand plan of Pharo, where is it ? Where is the >> official roadmap ? What are the goals that the core development team >> agree on ? Why are such a secret and I have never seen them discussed >> here or anywhere on the internet. >> >> I would not call Pharo odd, Pharo is diffirent but not that diffirent. It >> offers me a way to code that I prefer over python , but I would not call >> my experience coding with pharo radically different compared to python >> coding. Smalltalk used to be the Purple Cow no doubt when it first came >> out , so many new concepts and ideas that were far apart from anything >> remotely similar. But nowdays the smalltalk paradigm has been embraced in >> several fronts , languages and IDEs are moving closer and closer. >> >> It took python 24 years to get as popular as it is nowdays, the most >> popular languages have a similar lifespan if not more in some cases. Its >> a really long process and its full of compromises and ugly truths. >> >> I also dont like the fact that Pharo calls itself "Smalltalk inspired" >> its an insult to people who put an effort into Smalltalk by spending >> hours making code. You cannot be "Smalltalk inspired" by forking code , >> your at best "Smalltalk based" and that makes you Smalltalk. Ruby can >> call itself "Smalltalk inspired" , Pharo cannot. This shows to me a very >> flawed mentality inside the heads of those Pharoers that believe this, >> its shows me fear , its shows me embarrassment, it shows me weakness. >> >> I would prefer it if Pharo was advertising itself as a modern Smalltalk >> implementation as a project that lives true to the Smalltalk philosophy >> and moves forward. Instead here we are calling Smalltalk "less ambitious" >> , why ? Innovativing more than any other language have done so , is not >> ambitious enough for you ? >> >> I do believe in Pharo If I did not I would not contribute but I would >> prefer it without all the hype. Innovate all you want , code whatever >> makes you happy, live your dream but also respect the dreams of others, >> especially when you base your success on their success. And yes I will >> dare say it , Smalltalk has been extremely succesful in many fronts , far >> more than Pharo currently is. >> >> PS: Just a clarification because people love to put words on other people >> mouths, I never said that languages like Clojure and Scheme has been >> miserable failures generally, but based on the hype of how popular they >> will become. Both Clojure and Sceme are great language with continuously >> expanding communities . I was merely wanted to point out how hype does >> not help and there was tons of hype when Java allowed for the creation of >> those languages. Jython for example is one of the oldest Java languages >> (2001), and there was tons of hype when the project started that Jython >> could become at worst an equal to Cpython on terms of popularity and even >> more popular than Java at best. Sun even funded the development of >> Jython back in 2008. >> >> I admire what the creator of Redline done as I admire the effort that has >> been invested on both Pharo and Squeak. Its really hard to make a >> competitive product in a world so complex and so demanding as the one we >> live now. I do believe in Pharo and I hope the best for it but even Pharo >> never makes it to the top 20 most popular languages even in 30 years I >> wont lose my sleep over it. I love Pharo for what it is, and not what it >> may become. >> >> -- View this message in context: http://forum.world.st/InfoWorld-on-Redline-Smalltalk-tp4799612p4800113.html Sent from the Pharo Smalltalk Developers mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
