Since I am the mainn maintainer of UPBE and pretty much alone, I will have to disagree, I have expressed my dislike for GT tools in the past, I was quite vocal about my dislike about GTPlayground and especially the pages interface of GTInspector.
Yet even though I am the one that usually ends up keep pushing UPBE forward the most, I never said dont include this GT tool because I will have to document it. As a matter of fact GT people are the rare breed of pharoers , close to extinction level, that bothers documenting its own tools making my job super easy and a matter of porting their blog posts to Pillar. Also its important to note here that our dear beloved debugger is decades old, maybe just maybe its time to try something new even if we dont like it. Afterall GT people were quick to adress my problems of Playground like the lack of copy paste in right click menu, the lack of tabs etc. We objected and criticised, they improved . End of story. None complains about the Playground anymore. Its also important to note that they constantly pushing pharo forward. On the matters of documentation I will accept zero excuses from this community. If one spent 10 minutes per week, I repeat 10 minutes per week, on contributing to UPBE we would have the following 1) a person even a slow typer, types at least 40 words per minute 2) in 10 minutes one can type 400 words 3) That is one page of UPBE (pdf version) in 10 minutes 4) thats 50 pages per year per person 5) if people who are experienced are at least 10, I think we can find 10 people who understand pharo deeply , thats 500 pages per year we end up with the conclusion that the UPBE with extremely limited effort and extremely low amount of people would have by now the last 7 years that Pharo is around , 3500 pages of documentation. But since 10 people is too few and there a lot more judging from the mailing list , I will say 100 people is more realistic which means 35.000 pages or to put it more in perspective , thats the total of 10 UPBE books *I repeat 10 UPBE BOOKS !!!!! * So no no no and NO dont exclude the new debugger because of the effort to document, I respect Stef he and Damien are the ones responsible for the existenve of UPBE and PBE in the first place, they also helped me alot with Dimitri to port many chapters to pharo 4. Plus I love Pillar for documentation its awesome even with its flaws. But I say that GT people earned my trust, my trust that the have desire and visions to push Pharo forward and I say let them put the Debugger in who is going to hurt , it can be disabled and bring back the old one. Same story with Playground but seriously who bring back the old workspace ? Let them take the criticism and improve the new debugger, its a new thing of course it will have its flaws. But I dont want a Pharo that works well, I want a Pharo that keeps going forward. I have not the opportunity to download a new image because of my lack my connection is down and I use my mobile connection to do the minimum because it costs too much. But even if I heavily dislike the debugger like I did the the Playground I know that GT people will listen and will improve it, for that I have zero doubts because I admire their efforts even when I disagree with them. On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:19 AM Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote: > On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:22 AM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: > > I'm sorry but this debugger should not be the default one. > > MONDAY we are filming our mooc and we have to explain the debugger and > > personally I do not see the gain: > > - It looks a lot more complex to me and I do not want to have to redo > > all the screenshots > > of our lecture. > > - Just that I have to learn the meaning of small icons. > > - Why do we need a special pane for the evaluator > > - Why there is a type column. > > - Sorry but I'm not convinced about the moldable aspect behind the > story > > (no need to argue I know it) > > This also applies to UPBE. It would be good to get that out the door > matching Pharo 5 without too much rework. > > cheers -ben > > > > I would like to avoid to be forced to use not the latest version of Pharo > > for the mooc. > > > > Such changes are arriving far too late in the release. We do not change > the > > debugger itself the day of code freeze. > > > > We decided that the GTDebugger can be included but to me it never meant > that > > it should be the default one. > > I think that experts can choose the debugger they want. The newbies > don't. > > > > Stef > > > > > >
