Thank you, indeed. Doru
> On Jan 9, 2016, at 1:23 PM, Sven Van Caekenberghe <s...@stfx.eu> wrote: > > Thanks for this wonderfully positive message !! That is the spirit. > >> On 09 Jan 2016, at 10:49, Dimitris Chloupis <kilon.al...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Since I am the mainn maintainer of UPBE and pretty much alone, I will have >> to disagree, I have expressed my dislike for GT tools in the past, I was >> quite vocal about my dislike about GTPlayground and especially the pages >> interface of GTInspector. >> >> Yet even though I am the one that usually ends up keep pushing UPBE forward >> the most, I never said dont include this GT tool because I will have to >> document it. >> >> As a matter of fact GT people are the rare breed of pharoers , close to >> extinction level, that bothers documenting its own tools making my job super >> easy and a matter of porting their blog posts to Pillar. >> >> Also its important to note here that our dear beloved debugger is decades >> old, maybe just maybe its time to try something new even if we dont like it. >> >> Afterall GT people were quick to adress my problems of Playground like the >> lack of copy paste in right click menu, the lack of tabs etc. We objected >> and criticised, they improved . End of story. None complains about the >> Playground anymore. >> >> Its also important to note that they constantly pushing pharo forward. >> >> On the matters of documentation I will accept zero excuses from this >> community. If one spent 10 minutes per week, I repeat 10 minutes per week, >> on contributing to UPBE we would have the following >> >> 1) a person even a slow typer, types at least 40 words per minute >> 2) in 10 minutes one can type 400 words >> 3) That is one page of UPBE (pdf version) in 10 minutes >> 4) thats 50 pages per year per person >> 5) if people who are experienced are at least 10, I think we can find 10 >> people who understand pharo deeply , thats 500 pages per year >> >> we end up with the conclusion that the UPBE with extremely limited effort >> and extremely low amount of people would have by now the last 7 years that >> Pharo is around , 3500 pages of documentation. >> >> But since 10 people is too few and there a lot more judging from the mailing >> list , I will say 100 people is more realistic which means 35.000 pages or >> to put it more in perspective , thats the total of 10 UPBE books >> >> I repeat 10 UPBE BOOKS !!!!! >> >> >> So no no no and NO dont exclude the new debugger because of the effort to >> document, I respect Stef he and Damien are the ones responsible for the >> existenve of UPBE and PBE in the first place, they also helped me alot with >> Dimitri to port many chapters to pharo 4. Plus I love Pillar for >> documentation its awesome even with its flaws. >> >> >> But I say that GT people earned my trust, my trust that the have desire and >> visions to push Pharo forward and I say let them put the Debugger in who is >> going to hurt , it can be disabled and bring back the old one. Same story >> with Playground but seriously who bring back the old workspace ? >> >> Let them take the criticism and improve the new debugger, its a new thing of >> course it will have its flaws. But I dont want a Pharo that works well, I >> want a Pharo that keeps going forward. >> >> I have not the opportunity to download a new image because of my lack my >> connection is down and I use my mobile connection to do the minimum because >> it costs too much. >> >> But even if I heavily dislike the debugger like I did the the Playground I >> know that GT people will listen and will improve it, for that I have zero >> doubts because I admire their efforts even when I disagree with them. >> >> >> >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:19 AM Ben Coman <b...@openinworld.com> wrote: >> On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 4:22 AM, stepharo <steph...@free.fr> wrote: >>> I'm sorry but this debugger should not be the default one. >>> MONDAY we are filming our mooc and we have to explain the debugger and >>> personally I do not see the gain: >>> - It looks a lot more complex to me and I do not want to have to redo >>> all the screenshots >>> of our lecture. >>> - Just that I have to learn the meaning of small icons. >>> - Why do we need a special pane for the evaluator >>> - Why there is a type column. >>> - Sorry but I'm not convinced about the moldable aspect behind the story >>> (no need to argue I know it) >> >> This also applies to UPBE. It would be good to get that out the door >> matching Pharo 5 without too much rework. >> >> cheers -ben >> >> >>> I would like to avoid to be forced to use not the latest version of Pharo >>> for the mooc. >>> >>> Such changes are arriving far too late in the release. We do not change the >>> debugger itself the day of code freeze. >>> >>> We decided that the GTDebugger can be included but to me it never meant that >>> it should be the default one. >>> I think that experts can choose the debugger they want. The newbies don't. >>> >>> Stef >>> >>> >> > > -- www.tudorgirba.com www.feenk.com "We cannot reach the flow of things unless we let go."
