tx perl hacker :) Stef ] On Mar 4, 2009, at 2:56 PM, Cédrick Béler wrote:
> 2009/3/4 Stéphane Ducasse <[email protected]>: >> Fun enough I got the same feeling. Do you remember this etoy 3.8 >> release that should have been done fast and >> last more than a couple of month and after no communication with 3.9 >> at all. Or the fork of Croquet. >> So Marcus do not worry I can tell you that we are not paranoid and I >> will not let anybody damage us. >> And now we are even considered as the bad guy not wanted to merge.... >> I believe that people gets afraid by Pharo or have time to show us >> that we are wrong (of course some may want to >> really collaborate). > > let's say (hope) this is a question of favorable conjecture (which you > hadn't back when you took 3.9)... > > I think Matthiew and Keith... and some others, really pushed the idea > to live with forks (instead of building another image)... After a > year or two, people start to go in their way... + people have maybe > more time to collaborate. IMO, the arrival of Igor and Eliot is also a > big win... > > I think 2008 was a good smalltalk year... Pharo is a good choice > though because you offer something to developer that was simply absent > before and moreover, "people" were really reluctant to go in that > direction for squeak hence all your problems... So still, even if > there's a resurgence of squeak development collaboration, Pharo has > its place for the everyday developer (even people like me who like to > do simple stuffs ... but in smalltalk). I see Pharo as the Smalltalk > oriented to developers, where you experience good development > practices (and invent new one) whereas squeak is more global, touch at > everything, experiment in all directions... > > Pharo decision process will be anyway quicker than squeak (even with > Andreas proposal)... You can't imagine how much a little change like > the menu shrinking is important to me (and looked impossible to ask > for in squeak...). Maybe you won't totally reinvent Smalltalk but you > already provide a solid smalltalk basis for everyday work (nb: I'm > interested in first class slots ;) ). > > Anyway I find the present synergy around smalltalk/squeak/pharo/gs... > really cool. Even if I understand your frustration, it might be > important to try to stay in sync as much as possible. > > Keep the really good work :) > > My 2 cents, > >> >> For now I will not discuss that point anymore on this list because we >> do not make any progress and >> we do not have to justify ourselves. >> >>>>> The croquet people namely (andreas) are on my case, and he clearly >>>> gets >>>> this concept since he based his "running for the board" email on >>>> it. >>>> >>>> The cobalt people = matthew and others, they "get it", and are >>>> using >>>> some of the tools, and proposing common libraries. >>>> >>>> Bertf has expressed an interest in etoys moving up to 3.10+ if the >>>> transition can be eased. >> >> I'm curious to see what they would gain. >> And as if merging two streams would be that easy. >> >>>> >>> >>> So interestingly, all these peope never had *any* interest in >>> cooperating on anything. >>> >>> Etoys ignored 3.9 *completely*. (and all my activity to merge etoys >>> back before that was always done not with that much enthusiasm from >>> their side. I got some bit of help from Bert and Michael, but the >>> activity always came from my side). >>> >>> Andreas disapeared for years (just to pee on us for a good laugh >>> on and off). >>> >>> So I really wonder why they all changed their mind suddenly. >>> Seriously. >>> >>> Marcus >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > > > -- > Cédrick > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
