I use Pharo for commercial work TODAY! Thank you Pharo team!
--David Mitchell On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:12 AM, stepken <[email protected]> wrote: >> Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of their >> best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they have more >> important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first milestone. This >> can be planned in a future milestone. > > Hmmm. How many manyears were invested in Squeak? 1000, 2000? > > You have removed lots of code due to "license problems". See R.A. Harmon > code. What a pitty to throw away code ... > > Do you really think, he really cares about his former code contribution to a > system, which from the beginning was free and open? > > Don't you think, every jugde would confirm, that such code contributions were > made in the sense of "giveaways"? > > I think you don't have a real understanding of what you have destroyed now. > > Having rewritten array/colletions/streams code ... a bit shorter code now, > because of traits. Who really cares? > > You want to build a commercial platform to make money. Supported. Yes. > > Didn't you all Smalltalk Developers notice, that even Dolphin was close to > give up? They hat to find their new business model. And they also have a very > sophisticated *free* version. > > GNU Smalltalk 3.0 ... fine thing, free, can run seaside, pier, .... what do i > need more? Free! > > Do you really hope to get one cent for supporting a free smalltalk platform? > > I really appreciate your effords. There are things, that had to be done on > Squeak. Traits, 5th implemention of closures ... > > But ... you haven't included the old code contributors at Viewpoint Research > Institute, MIT (Scratch), HPI Berlin. > > Where are your plans to give back your code changes to squeak/scratch > community? No. Very egoistic, IMHO. > > Where is the "soft refactoring" without destroying anything ...? At the > moment ... i see some developments with pleasure, others are catastrophic ... > > Eliot writing the 10th implementation of a squeak jitter. Fine. Every > profesional company uses LLVM. Apple e.g. > > I wanted to know, how fast a programming language with jitter could be done. > It took me about 2 weeks ...LL(1) grammar, LLVM ... works like a charm on > Intel, ARM, PPC ... and really fast! Other platforms to be tested. Of cause, > lots of things to be done .. debugging ... profiling ... no classbrowser ... > but i can run older squeak code with morphic. 80%/20% problem ;-) Or rather > 90/10? Dunnow, i stopped the development. Was an experiment. > > Will Eliots jitter run on different processor architectures? No! 386 machine > code only. So - no real portability! Who really cares that stuff then? Ever > heard of the giant chinese market? They use MIPS clone 32+64Bit processors > with Linux now. Everywhere. China can't officially use Intel, because of too > much power consumption. I've been there several times. MIPS, everywhere. In > China and Japan you find lots of people doing squeak stuff. Potential code > contributors code developers for Pharo, partners! > > Morphic code .. from SELF Programming Language development ... then ported to > squeak, then to Javascript. Fine. ETOYS on TOP. > > Where is my loved ETOYS? The only reason to use Squeak or Pharo! Education > was and is the domain of Squeak. Nothing else. > > I asked Frank Lesser for EToys / Morphic on top of his Smalltalk. Matured, > blindingly fast, Jitter written in Assembler. Now the base for DNG. Not a > great problem, he meant, he had it once ported for testing purposes. > > If i really needed a sophisticated smalltalk to start new projects ... what > do you think, what i would take? Smalltalk for educational purposes, e.g.? I > have free choice. But no ETOYS, anywhere. Children really love EToys. It's a > marvelous software package for educational purposes. > > Many companies are caught in their own jail of huge masses of GUI code. They > can't go with other smalltalks. Will they ever change to a "supported Pharo"? > I think: No. > > Morphic ... no MVC, no MVP. What has happened to Tweak code? ETOYS was ported > to that GUI. That code was quite ok. Why haven't the code autors spent that > code for Squeak/Pharo? > > So please ... don't tell me you haven't enough hands at the moment. Do the > right things, not just some few things right, beautifying GUI, implemeting > the 5th version of closures and well ... traits. > > Do 'crowdsourceing', invite people to contribute, learn community organizing > first. Give them a reason to contribute. Give them a future, a business > modell to participate. > > Your egoistic path to make a commercial supported free smalltalk ... good > idea, but you are lightyears far from that. > > Leo Penta wrote a nice book about that 'crowdsourceing' stuff, or reread > "Eric Raymond - Cathedral and the basaar" again and again and again. > *PARTICIPATION* Bring people to participate your business model. > > LEARN from the mistakes, many, many good programmers did. See TWEAK bad fate. > Dead development process. Good sourcecode, lost in space ... like many squeak > packages. > > *Defective development process*. I posted that as issue, it was deleted by > someone not really understanding, what i meant. > > thanx for understanding. > > cheers, Guido Stepken > > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
