I use Pharo for commercial work TODAY!

Thank you Pharo team!

--David Mitchell

On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:12 AM, stepken <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of their
>> best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they have more
>> important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first milestone. This
>> can be planned in a future milestone.
>
> Hmmm. How many manyears were invested in Squeak? 1000, 2000?
>
> You have removed lots of code due to "license problems". See R.A. Harmon 
> code. What a pitty to throw away code ...
>
> Do you really think, he really cares about his former code contribution to a 
> system, which from the beginning was free and open?
>
> Don't you think, every jugde would confirm, that such code contributions were 
> made in the sense of "giveaways"?
>
> I think you don't have a real understanding of what you have destroyed now.
>
> Having rewritten array/colletions/streams code ... a bit shorter code now, 
> because of traits. Who really cares?
>
> You want to build a commercial platform to make money. Supported. Yes.
>
> Didn't you all Smalltalk Developers notice, that even Dolphin was close to 
> give up? They hat to find their new business model. And they also have a very 
> sophisticated *free* version.
>
> GNU Smalltalk 3.0 ... fine thing, free, can run seaside, pier, .... what do i 
> need more? Free!
>
> Do you really hope to get one cent for supporting a free smalltalk platform?
>
> I really appreciate your effords. There are things, that had to be done on 
> Squeak. Traits, 5th implemention of closures ...
>
> But ... you haven't included the old code contributors at Viewpoint Research 
> Institute, MIT (Scratch), HPI Berlin.
>
> Where are your plans to give back your code changes to squeak/scratch 
> community? No. Very egoistic, IMHO.
>
> Where is the "soft refactoring" without destroying anything ...? At the 
> moment ... i see some developments with pleasure, others are catastrophic ...
>
> Eliot writing the 10th implementation of a squeak jitter. Fine. Every 
> profesional company uses LLVM. Apple e.g.
>
> I wanted to know, how fast a programming language with jitter could be done. 
> It took me about 2 weeks ...LL(1) grammar, LLVM ... works like a charm on 
> Intel, ARM, PPC ... and really fast! Other platforms to be tested. Of cause, 
> lots of things to be done .. debugging ... profiling ... no classbrowser ... 
> but i can run older squeak code with morphic. 80%/20% problem ;-) Or rather 
> 90/10? Dunnow, i stopped the development. Was an experiment.
>
> Will Eliots jitter run on different processor architectures? No! 386 machine 
> code only. So - no real portability! Who really cares that stuff then? Ever 
> heard of the giant chinese market? They use MIPS clone 32+64Bit processors 
> with Linux now. Everywhere. China can't officially use Intel, because of too 
> much power consumption. I've been there several times. MIPS, everywhere. In 
> China and Japan you find lots of people doing squeak stuff. Potential code 
> contributors code developers for Pharo, partners!
>
> Morphic code .. from SELF Programming Language development ... then ported to 
> squeak, then to Javascript. Fine. ETOYS on TOP.
>
> Where is my loved ETOYS? The only reason to use Squeak or Pharo! Education 
> was and is the domain of Squeak. Nothing else.
>
> I asked Frank Lesser for EToys / Morphic on top of his Smalltalk. Matured, 
> blindingly fast, Jitter written in Assembler. Now the base for DNG. Not a 
> great problem, he meant, he had it once ported for testing purposes.
>
> If i really needed a sophisticated smalltalk to start new projects ... what 
> do you think, what i would take? Smalltalk for educational purposes, e.g.? I 
> have free choice. But no ETOYS, anywhere. Children really love EToys. It's a 
> marvelous software package for educational purposes.
>
> Many companies are caught in their own jail of huge masses of GUI code. They 
> can't go with other smalltalks. Will they ever change to a "supported Pharo"? 
> I think: No.
>
> Morphic ... no MVC, no MVP. What has happened to Tweak code? ETOYS was ported 
> to that GUI. That code was quite ok. Why haven't the code autors spent that 
> code for Squeak/Pharo?
>
> So please ... don't tell me you haven't enough hands at the moment. Do the 
> right things, not just some few things right, beautifying GUI, implemeting 
> the 5th version of closures and well ... traits.
>
> Do 'crowdsourceing', invite people to contribute, learn community organizing 
> first. Give them a reason to contribute. Give them a future, a business 
> modell to participate.
>
> Your egoistic path to make a commercial supported free smalltalk ... good 
> idea, but you are lightyears far from that.
>
> Leo Penta wrote a nice book about that 'crowdsourceing' stuff, or reread 
> "Eric Raymond - Cathedral and the basaar" again and again and again. 
> *PARTICIPATION* Bring people to participate your business model.
>
> LEARN from the mistakes, many, many good programmers did. See TWEAK bad fate. 
> Dead development process. Good sourcecode, lost in space ... like many squeak 
> packages.
>
> *Defective development process*. I posted that as issue, it was deleted by 
> someone not really understanding, what i meant.
>
> thanx for understanding.
>
> cheers, Guido Stepken
>
>
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