On May 26, 2009, at 3:45 PM, David Mitchell wrote: > I use Pharo for commercial work TODAY!
This is cool. Can you tell us a bit more :) > Thank you Pharo team! Stef > > > --David Mitchell > > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:12 AM, stepken <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Pharo developers are few and limited. They are trying to do all of >>> their >>> best on Pharo. We know this an important package but perhaps they >>> have more >>> important things to do. Pharo is not even in a beta of first >>> milestone. This >>> can be planned in a future milestone. >> >> Hmmm. How many manyears were invested in Squeak? 1000, 2000? >> >> You have removed lots of code due to "license problems". See R.A. >> Harmon code. What a pitty to throw away code ... >> >> Do you really think, he really cares about his former code >> contribution to a system, which from the beginning was free and open? >> >> Don't you think, every jugde would confirm, that such code >> contributions were made in the sense of "giveaways"? >> >> I think you don't have a real understanding of what you have >> destroyed now. >> >> Having rewritten array/colletions/streams code ... a bit shorter >> code now, because of traits. Who really cares? >> >> You want to build a commercial platform to make money. Supported. >> Yes. >> >> Didn't you all Smalltalk Developers notice, that even Dolphin was >> close to give up? They hat to find their new business model. And >> they also have a very sophisticated *free* version. >> >> GNU Smalltalk 3.0 ... fine thing, free, can run seaside, pier, .... >> what do i need more? Free! >> >> Do you really hope to get one cent for supporting a free smalltalk >> platform? >> >> I really appreciate your effords. There are things, that had to be >> done on Squeak. Traits, 5th implemention of closures ... >> >> But ... you haven't included the old code contributors at Viewpoint >> Research Institute, MIT (Scratch), HPI Berlin. >> >> Where are your plans to give back your code changes to squeak/ >> scratch community? No. Very egoistic, IMHO. >> >> Where is the "soft refactoring" without destroying anything ...? At >> the moment ... i see some developments with pleasure, others are >> catastrophic ... >> >> Eliot writing the 10th implementation of a squeak jitter. Fine. >> Every profesional company uses LLVM. Apple e.g. >> >> I wanted to know, how fast a programming language with jitter could >> be done. It took me about 2 weeks ...LL(1) grammar, LLVM ... works >> like a charm on Intel, ARM, PPC ... and really fast! Other >> platforms to be tested. Of cause, lots of things to be done .. >> debugging ... profiling ... no classbrowser ... but i can run older >> squeak code with morphic. 80%/20% problem ;-) Or rather 90/10? >> Dunnow, i stopped the development. Was an experiment. >> >> Will Eliots jitter run on different processor architectures? No! >> 386 machine code only. So - no real portability! Who really cares >> that stuff then? Ever heard of the giant chinese market? They use >> MIPS clone 32+64Bit processors with Linux now. Everywhere. China >> can't officially use Intel, because of too much power consumption. >> I've been there several times. MIPS, everywhere. In China and Japan >> you find lots of people doing squeak stuff. Potential code >> contributors code developers for Pharo, partners! >> >> Morphic code .. from SELF Programming Language development ... then >> ported to squeak, then to Javascript. Fine. ETOYS on TOP. >> >> Where is my loved ETOYS? The only reason to use Squeak or Pharo! >> Education was and is the domain of Squeak. Nothing else. >> >> I asked Frank Lesser for EToys / Morphic on top of his Smalltalk. >> Matured, blindingly fast, Jitter written in Assembler. Now the base >> for DNG. Not a great problem, he meant, he had it once ported for >> testing purposes. >> >> If i really needed a sophisticated smalltalk to start new >> projects ... what do you think, what i would take? Smalltalk for >> educational purposes, e.g.? I have free choice. But no ETOYS, >> anywhere. Children really love EToys. It's a marvelous software >> package for educational purposes. >> >> Many companies are caught in their own jail of huge masses of GUI >> code. They can't go with other smalltalks. Will they ever change to >> a "supported Pharo"? I think: No. >> >> Morphic ... no MVC, no MVP. What has happened to Tweak code? ETOYS >> was ported to that GUI. That code was quite ok. Why haven't the >> code autors spent that code for Squeak/Pharo? >> >> So please ... don't tell me you haven't enough hands at the moment. >> Do the right things, not just some few things right, beautifying >> GUI, implemeting the 5th version of closures and well ... traits. >> >> Do 'crowdsourceing', invite people to contribute, learn community >> organizing first. Give them a reason to contribute. Give them a >> future, a business modell to participate. >> >> Your egoistic path to make a commercial supported free >> smalltalk ... good idea, but you are lightyears far from that. >> >> Leo Penta wrote a nice book about that 'crowdsourceing' stuff, or >> reread "Eric Raymond - Cathedral and the basaar" again and again >> and again. *PARTICIPATION* Bring people to participate your >> business model. >> >> LEARN from the mistakes, many, many good programmers did. See TWEAK >> bad fate. Dead development process. Good sourcecode, lost in >> space ... like many squeak packages. >> >> *Defective development process*. I posted that as issue, it was >> deleted by someone not really understanding, what i meant. >> >> thanx for understanding. >> >> cheers, Guido Stepken >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pharo-project mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project > _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list [email protected] http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
