Thank you Jimmie, I've enjoyed your mail. And as a "little guy in the enterprise who has small side projects", I feel Pharo is better week after week and this is good.
Laurent On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 2:21 AM, Jimmie Houchin <[email protected]> wrote: > On 12/7/2010 5:38 PM, [email protected] wrote: > >> Sean, >> >> Hope that additional to the fun, we can converge to an understanding how >> can we increase Smalltalk popularity. >> >> OTOH, I made the reference as a sample, I did not intend to have this as >> all encompassing list of issues nor start a thread about comparisons with >> other languages. >> >> As I said earlier, what is 'trivial' or 'intuitive' for some is 'maverick' >> or 'bizarre' for others, it is in the eyes of the beholder... ;-) >> >> My main message is more around this: although Smalltalk was a very >> advanced technology when its inception, present status have almost all of >> its characteristics embedded in present technology. Even, when newer >> concepts as xUnit have started in Smalltalk, the _concept_ was absorbed in >> mainstream technologies so again we're stuck with small delta between what >> Smalltalk does 'better' than the incumbent technologies we would like to >> replace. >> > > I can't help but disagree with this most strenuously. > > Almost nothing has touched Smalltalk's advanced technology. They don't have > the world view or paradigm for doing so. They are languages that operate in > dead cycles. They have dead processes and do dead post mortem debugging. > Yuck! (yes, I know that was redundant. :) > > I am not a computer scientist or trained programmer. I am a creative guy > who is a businessman. I find Smalltalk empowering. I also use Python when > necessary, but Squeak/Pharo is my preferred language. I find myself > infinitely more productive in Smalltalk than in Python. Operating in a live > environment is incredibly empowering, enabling and productive. Where else > can I find this. C, C++, C#, Java, Python, Ruby, VB, nope, none... > > Demonstrating large scale Smalltalk projects have been canceled does not > prove Smalltalk's inferiority, nor that the competition (should one choose > to refer to them as such) has caught up or passed us. Especially when said > project was not canceled for technical reasons but political ones and for > software that was/is demonstrably inferior to the already existing Smalltalk > software. But what it does prove is that Smalltalk has been and can be > effectively deployed for large scale projects where someone has the courage > or political will to choose something different than the status quo > languages. > > The decisions of PHBs (Pointy Haired Bosses, Dilbert) does not invalidate > anything about Smalltalk. After all their primary motivation is job > security, not project success. No one ever got fired for choosing, MS, Java, > IBM, Oracle, etc... > > The biggest weakness for Smalltalk or at least our open source version in > Squeak/Pharo IMHO is its integration, cooperation or access story to certain > outside systems and technologies. And I speak as an end user who cannot > develop a plugin, or use Alien or FFI and program in C. In my situation for > example. I have to interface to either a Windows dll or to a Java library to > access financial servers. No choice. So I must choose a technology which can > interface their technology. In my case, I chose to use Python to interface > the Windows dll. I have written a minimal Python app which accesses the dll > and thus the servers to access the data and my accounts. But the business > logic I am writing in Pharo. The Python app simply provides my Pharo app the > data and executes the actions directed by the Pharo app. > > I would that I could have interfaced the dll (or Java library) directly > from Pharo. But despite that obstacle I am choosing to write my app in > Pharo. Most in this business are using VB/C#/Java. They do not provide the > flexibility or productivity that I have in Pharo/Smalltalk. They do not > enable the small guy like me as well as Pharo/Smalltalk. Yes, this is my > opinion. But guess what. This is a Pharo mailing list populated by people > who are for and proponents of Smalltalk. If we favored other languages and > environments we would be there. Many of those on the this list are also > pretty dog gone expert in the other technologies as well. They did not make > their decisions out of ignorance. What I don't understand is that if you are > so convinced that the advantages of Smalltalk are so minimal and of no > consequence, then why are you here? > > I would like to see Pharo/Squeak bridge the gap to be able to interface > system components or other business libraries. I would like to be able to > use Pharo/Squeak anywhere I could use Python. I would like to see that there > are fewer and fewer technical reasons for not choosing Pharo/Squeak. I can > understand other choices. Other people are more comfortable with other > languages, systems, environments. They may have a knowledge, systems, and > process investment. But this can only validate their decision for them and > in no way invalidates the technology or capabilities of Smalltalk. > > There are many, many projects for which Smalltalk/Pharo/Squeak have no > discernible technological disadvantages. They do not require any systems > integration or use of the "native ui". > > Enterprise. I agree with the sentiment that we don't need to worry about > it. Let Cincom address enterprise users. We need to empower the little guy > in the enterprise who has small side projects which do not have to go > through the same channels as the larger "enterprise" projects. Projects for > which they might choose Python or Ruby. Over time we can improve our > enterprise story and infiltration. Fortunately for us, > Smalltalk/Squeak/Pharo is in the long game. It has seen technologies come > and go and is still here. If we the open source Smalltalk community continue > to make the improvements we are making, then we will be an increasingly > viable choice for the entrepreneur, small businessman, enterprise guy with > the side project, the person with a project they do on their personal time > at home. It is the most enabling technology I know. > > Well, I'll end my rant here and get back to being enabled in the > development of my business app. > > Jimmie > >
