the bottom line is that lisp has been the basis where Smalltalk was founded in the first place. Foremost the idea of "code is data and data is code" is something that Smalltalk and Lisp as been founded on. Alan Kay praised Lisp and in several case afterall and said how much he was inspired by it. And many opened minded Lispers praise Smalltalk too. True there a lot of diffirence in both languages but if I could find one enviroment, one IDE close to Squeak and Pharo that would be Lisp with Emacs and slime. Even the essence of image exists in lisp and like smalltalk lisp puts loads of emphasis on live coding.
Does it feel the same ? No but then it takes even the slightest change to make a diffirence in that feeling. But its very hard to deny that those two (smalltalk and lisp) are close and extremely distant from anything else out there. I am still torn between lisp and smalltalk myself. I am a huge fan of live coding enviroments and its so hard to choose because both are so great. Maybe I should keep using both I guess. But yes I dont think there is any point of creating a Emacs / Lisp vs Pharo / Smalltalk discussion . Both are great in their own way and both are extremely successful in what they try to accomplish. I probably will end up using both for a very very long time :D ________________________________ From: Sven Van Caekenberghe <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 9 October 2012, 10:21 Subject: Re: [Pharo-project] Emacs and Smalltalk code On 09 Oct 2012, at 00:47, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes. I never used SLIME. I even don't know what is it. > If you think it is far superior to what we have in pharo, please feel > free to open our eyes, > and direct us towards better system. SWANK is a kind of interface/protocol between an advanced/extended editor and a running Lisp system/image. SLIME is a mode for Emacs to interact with a (possibly remote) Lisp using SWANK. It is quite impressive. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLIME] Although sadly this discussion is derailing a bit, it _is_ interesting. The question of what makes Smalltalk such a nice environment to work in is hard to answer. Yes, the image and the way source code is handled is a very important part of that, but it is also true that it is all just source code that could be stored in files outside an image.Yes, the Smalltalk IDE and tools are very good, but it is also true that many environments offer similar and sometimes even better tools. Emacs is my main editor as well, I use vi occasionally, I have a long background in Lisp, for a brief period I worked a bit on real old school Symbolics Lisp machines. Although LispWorks [http://www.lispworks.com] is the closest thing to (Pharo) Smalltalk as an IDE, and although I have a production Lisp image that has been running for more than 2 years, it still does _not_ feel the same as working in Smalltalk. There is something magical there that does create a very good illusion that you really are interacting directly with live objects. Sven PS: I too sometimes curse the current editor and/or completion, but since all you do is editing short pieces of code, it does not make any difference. Navigating code and/or the live system makes all the difference. -- Sven Van Caekenberghe http://stfx.eu Smalltalk is the Red Pill
