+1 -- Cheers, Peter.
On 30 nov 2012, at 19:13, Igor Stasenko <[email protected]> wrote: > On 30 November 2012 18:23, ☈king <[email protected]> wrote: >> On 11/30/2012 10:48 AM, Marcus Denker wrote: >>> I am sure the Emacs user will be violently against it. >> >> Actually, that's the thing: Namespacing. >> >> You could install vi keys on emacs and an emacs user would never notice >> without hitting the Escape key. >> >> Emacs keys, on the other hand, *do* conflict with existing Pharo bindings. >> >>> Another thing is that I personally think that one of the things that >>> Smalltalk >>> did very early is to not have modes for editing… >>> >>> Are editing modes really something people want in 2012? >> >> Think of modes as a monkey that sits by your keyboard. >> >> Every time you bop him on the head (that is, you hit Escape), he >> obediently reaches over and holds down a special keyboard modifier for >> you, and continues to do so until you tell him to stop. >> >> Since bopping him on the head takes no more time than hitting the >> modifier key itself, hitting [Bop],[Key] is always going to be an >> equally concise way of entering a string of commands compared to >> chording [Modifier+Key]. But generally it's more concise, because you >> tend to do big sequences of one or the other: edit a bunch, or input a >> bunch. That is, in real life you do [Bop],[Key],[Key2],[Key],[Key3], >> which is better than >> [Modifier1+Key],[Modifier2+Key2],[Modifier1+Key],[Ctrl+Alt+Shift+Modifier+TurboDrive+Footpedal+☝+Key3] >> > > well, what you explaining here is not just about handling keyboard > typing, but also > requires changes in UI (showing command line, black & white color > scheme, 80x25 text mode ;) ) etc.. > > i think, if vi would contest for "best obscure editor", i guess it > would get 1st prize. > i don't really care why you like it , just can you (or someone else) > explain me, why you think > it is best possible way of doing things? > Since i can't see it. > > What exactly commands/shortcuts you wanna have there? > And wouldn't it be better to focus UI design towards avoiding the need > for shortcuts/modes alltogether? > > Also, i going to repeat same over again: we don't need a full-fledged > text editor(s) in smalltalk IDE. > In smalltalk you will find yourself rarely need to edit more than 10 > lines of code at time. > From that perspective, do you think it is wise to invest people's > energy into that? > I think it should be a call for those who miss it: if you want it - make it. > > After all, you can run vi/emacs/<put your favorite> in separate window, > and can always copy-paste text between, and enjoy your lovely keyboard > shortcuts. > > Sorry, maybe i miss something and don't see full picture, > but i really don't understand what is so cool in having vi/emacs > shortcuts in pharo.. > > >> >> The critical point is that users that don't enter command mode would >> never be bothered by it. Users who do stumble upon it could get an >> additional leg up with the help text, and they don't even really have to >> know it's "Vi Keys", just that it's a non-chorded interface. >> >> I know it's radical, but that's how we roll. (Right?) >> >> —☈ >> > > > > -- > Best regards, > Igor Stasenko. >
