The vital records of her birth place would show the actual date of birth as 1873. A hundred years ago, and it is pretty much that now, people were interested in date of birth . . . and date of death . . . putting the records together is a problem. When a death certificate was issued they relied on data at hand. Also, in census records the recorder could mis spell words, dates, etc. No one record can stand alone. A person would need to spend a fair amount of time to balance one record against the other. Vital records (which do show 1873), passenger lists, census records, death certificates, headstones, etc all carry some weight but mistakes can happen on all. Case in point . . . I am researching one line where the family kept changing the spelling of their name . . . Masteller . . . Mosteller . . . Marsteller . . . etc. You have to really put some thought into how information could be written down. People recording information were often poorly educated by todays standards. In putting information on the web . . . mistakes were also made. It's also possible that the person in question mislead the recorders. One great great uncle of mine listed his birth as three different years depending on what would be best for him at the time. It's not an easy task to research someones background. Just that the information is there if one wants to take the time to research it. BruceY <[email protected]> wrote: Still trying to pin down Ada's actually birth date via some sort of bonifide document. All the biographies give her birth year as 1873 which would make her 47 at some point in 1920 not age 44, and her death certificate gives an incorrect age of 40, couldn't someone at the time poor Ada passed at least make an effort to call or wire someone to obtain the correct information for her Death Certificate?!! and who gave the information to the Census Taker?? Seems he not only had her age wrong but the spelling of her last name wrong as well?
Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "wayne holznagel" To: Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 8:36 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Additional Ada Jones Information >I believe I may have the right person . . . > The 1920 census shows Hugh, Ada, & Sheelah (it's hard to read the > spelling of this name). They lived at Huntington, Suffolk, New York. > According to this record: > Hugh's age was 39. He arrived in the US in 1886. He became a > naturalized citizen in 1917. He came from England. Occupation was > theatrical. > Ada's age was 44. She arrived in the US in 1880. She became a > naturalized citizen in 1917. She came from England. Occupation was > singer. > Sheelah's age was 13. Was was listed as "daughter". The census > information indicates she was born in England. > If anyone is linked into one of the major genealogical web sites you can > obtain copies of the original information. That would include, in many > cases, copies of passenger lists, census information, probate records, > etc. I've been researching my extensive family history and, believe me, > it's there if a person wants to look. I like ancestory.com but there are > other sites that provide good information. > Just some information for the good of the cause. > > > <:)> > Wayne H > > > My website is at http://www.phonomantiques.com/ > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org <:)> Wayne H My website is at http://www.phonomantiques.com/ From [email protected] Sat Apr 12 18:15:37 2008 From: [email protected] (BruceY) Date: Sat Apr 12 18:13:30 2008 Subject: [Phono-L] Ada Jones References: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <000e01c89d03$e2a70b00$6401a...@user52c8f93503> If I seem like a stickler for accuracy on this, and really would like to see the incorrect Legal Document corrected, it is because for the last 6 years I have prepared and filed hundreds of Death Certificates on behalf of the Funeral Home for which I work. Occasionally we are given false or inaccurate records by the next of Kin, and when that happens it legally has to be corrected, usually via a Notarized Avadavat. There are also blocks on the Death Certificate that legally have to be filled in or the Death Certificate will be rejected by the City, Town or State official reviewing it.,especially the birth Date which strangely is missing on Ada's Death Certificate. This is not only unacceptable, it is in fact illegal!! It is unconscionable to me that at the time of someone's death that the parties responsible for both providing and also recording this information neglected first to find it out, by either making a phone call or wiring someone who would know it or have it on file, and then record it with an age that was obviously a guess!! Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ryan Barna" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 12, 2008 5:34 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Ada Jones I'm no Ada Jones expert -- I'm just citing some info Milford Fargo put together many years ago.Jones was born June 1, 1873 at her parents' home at 78 [!] Manchester Street in Oldham, Lancashire, England, but her birth wasn't registered until August 18th. She was baptized as "Ada Jane Jones" on June 15, 1873 in Oldham's St. Patrick's Church. Her parents were James Jones and Ann Jane Walsh. I haven't inspected any of these documents.Ada married the dancer Hugh Flaherty on August 9, 1904. This is according to the New York City Marriage Index, which I have access to, so Ada's real married name was "Flaherty," not "Flarhaty" as the death certificate shows. Their daughter, Sheelah Flaherty, lived from 1906 to 1936. Whether or not she married with children, I don't know. Fargo mentioned in a July 18, 1981 letter to Ron Dethlefson that he had copies of both Sheelah's birth and death certificates.You might be interested in knowing that Sheelah took part in a few records with her mother. She's documented in "The Golden Wedding" (Edison Disc 50513), and "A Day in Toyland" (Peerless Orch. with Jones, Porter, Meeker, and Sheelah, Edison Disc 50673, Blue Amberol 3875). I also have the latter title on Emerson 1096 crediting "Orchestra with Toy Instruments." Although the Emerson files had disappeared years ago, I'm pretty certain I hear Sheelah in it. Ada Jones and Steve Porter are definitely audible.Now, as far as Fargo's research and collection goes, his cylinders and discs where sold separately when he passed away in 1986 (the Eastman School of Music, where he was the Professor of Music Education, didn't want them--at least that's what his widow Lois told me). His research papers on Jones went with the discs, and I know the person who has them, who happens to be a good friend of mine. I asked if he wanted to photocopy them so I could give them a home on my website, but that depends on when he can find them. Plus, he has limited Internet access, so he can't really scan them for me either. But Fargo's paper collection likely contains these birth certificates, primary documents regarding Ada, and probably other stuff I'm not aware of.As far as corrections to the death certificate go, I prefer to preserve historic (and legal) documents as they were, as not to "disturb" history. I do agree on correcting errors, and I will apply these corrections on my site momentarily. Legally, I can't do anything to change the certificate at the health department, but I know that Ada had some half-siblings, who probably have descendents living today. Although I usually prefer to preserve original documents as they were.I believe "W. J. Armstrong," the informant on her death certificate, is "Armstrong, the Man of Mystery," who was travelling with Jones' show at the time. The clerk's office probably needed someone nearby to supply her personal information, so they chose Armstrong to tell what ever he knew about her. For her age, he could've just said, "Maybe her 40s?" Nobody can really expect anyone to know who their associates' parents were either, especially if they were deceased. It's possible that they couldn't get her husband Hugh Flaherty to supply the info at the time.Hugh was an overly private individual -- he wouldn't want anyone knowing his family's background info anyway, or having record collectors ask him about Jones, etc. Back in the 40s, Jim Walsh wrote that Hugh was already dead, when he actually lived until 1961, because he wanted to protect his privacy. At first he denied that he was Jones' widower when Milford Fargo was trying to track him down, until Fargo finally got him to agree to a taped interview. I have not listened to the tape, but I know someone who has a copy, so it definitely exists.Sorry I had to generalize most of this, I'm not that big on Jones (most of what I'm writing is second hand info). I wish I had Milford's documents (or better, Milford himself) to answer these questions for me, but if I can get my friend to submit some of his papers, most of this picture can be straightened out.Ryan Barnawww.phonostalgia.com _________________________________________________________________ Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic. http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N1653A_______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
