I think the ear is always a reliable guide in terms of voices sounding natural. Billy Murray had such a prolific career precisely because he sounded so high and tinny during a period where that was the only kind of voice that would cleanly project through the medium (without being the world's greatest opera singer, of course). Cal Stewart sounds a bit 'sped up' to me as well, but I know that was a component of his comedic delivery. Pathe certainly wasn't worried about a standardized speed -- the early sleeves say to play between 90 and 100 rpm. Fonotipias are also completely all over the place in terms of speed. And of course, Aida Flavia-Artsay's great book about Caruso's recordings took every aspect possible into account (including the eyewitness testimony of other opera singers) when 'pitching' all Caruso's recordings, revealing speeds from 67rpm on up to 78 for just the G&T's alone! Best,Robert
> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 14:39:15 -0500 > From: rochr...@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way works > great on disc machines > > This is indeed an interesting topic. > > There is a related topic that concerns early motion picture speeds. It > seems that early directors and cameramen were not that steady in the hand > cranking of film cameras but audiences didn't seem to notice. Speeding up > and slowing down the film during projection was also done. I became > interested in this topic because I was told in film class that TV film chain > projectors could only project at 24fps and so silent films always looked > comically fast when seen today. I was incredulous that film restorers would > allow classic silent films to be seen incorrectly in this way. But later I > learned that there was no standard film speed until sound films started > being made and that audiences in the 1920s didn't seem to mind the actors > walking fast in some parts and normally in others. > > So, maybe record buyers in the early days didn't notice the difference > between one recording of Billy Murray and the next one where his voice was > higher or lower when played at the speed where their Victrola or Standard > was set. BTW, it is with his records (and many vocal quartets) that I > usually slow down the speed so he doesn't sound so much like a woman. His > singing seems more natural to me that way. I am not a musician and don't > have perfect pitch so I have no way of knowing if the music is being played > in the correct key. > > GrnMountainBill in the midst of a big snowstorm > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 1:45 PM, Mike Stitt <smst...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > An interesting thread. We know that brown wax speeds vary considerably. > > Even > > early discs varied. Later production cylinders settled in to a standard > > speed but how consistent would that be..? Some manufacturers may have been > > more diligent than others trying to achieve such consistency. > > > > It all may be a moot point really that you have the speed dialed in to such > > accuracy but it is an interesting topic. > > Mike > > Oldcranky > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:05 AM, Steven Medved <steve_nor...@msn.com> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > GrnMountianBill, > > > > > > Thanks, disc machines are nice to time that way, I like having the tool. > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 11:53:42 -0500 > > > > From: rochr...@gmail.com > > > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer way > > > works great on disc machines > > > > > > > > Steven: > > > > > > > > All four of my old machines were off (three cylinder machines and a DD) > > > but > > > > I tend to like records played a little slower than some people because, > > > in > > > > particular, I think the voices sound more natural at slower speeds. I > > > > recently got a little support for my theory when I read the story > > "1920s > > > > Jazz at 78rpm?" in Sandy Brown Jazz ( > > > > http://www.sandybrownjazz.co.uk/whatsnew.html). I may not be nuts > > after > > > > all. > > > > > > > > I cut a tiny piece of white sticky paper to attach to the mandrels and > > > > turntable for the device to read. I also checked my modern electric > > > > turntables just to see if they are running at the correct speeds. They > > > were > > > > pretty close at their fixed speeds; even my old broadcast table on > > which > > > I > > > > play 16" transcriptions. One additional benefit of this device is that > > > the > > > > Numark turntable, with which I play most of my 78s, has a variable > > speed > > > > control but it is marked in percentage, not rpm. So it is now easy for > > me > > > > to find 76 rpm and 80rpm. I still think that these standard speeds are > > > too > > > > fast for some records, particularly those made before about 1912. > > > > > > > > GrnMountianBill > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 10:49 AM, Steven Medved <steve_nor...@msn.com> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > GrnMountainBill > > > > > > > > > > You are 100% correct, I saw this one on amazon but I did not realize > > it > > > was > > > > > the same as the one on eBay. Thanks for the post. Have you used yours > > > and > > > > > how far off was your machines? > > > > > > > > > > On the cylinder machines I set the device on the rail and I use one > > > record > > > > > with the sticker on it. Whiteout works, I have one DD record with a > > > crack, > > > > > I marked the end of the crack with whiteout to protect my needle and > > it > > > > > picked it up. > > > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2011 10:02:44 -0500 > > > > > > From: rochr...@gmail.com > > > > > > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Timing your cylinder phonograph the Dazer > > way > > > > > works great on disc machines > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve: I found mine on Amazon for much less: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001N4QY66/ref=asc_df_B001N4QY661415145?smid=AFLT987H7WA7G&tag=dealtmp4800-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395105&creativeASIN=B001N4QY66 > > > > > > > > > > > > GrnMountainBill > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Steven Medved < > > steve_nor...@msn.com> > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello Cylinder Phono owners, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are you tired of using those hard to read strobes for your > > cylinder > > > > > player > > > > > > > or the dreaded count the piece of paper hitting your finger? If > > so > > > you > > > > > can > > > > > > > measure the RPM's with the: > > > > > > > Wood/Metal Lathe Digital LCD Tachometer RPM Tool/Guage (how the > > > eBay > > > > > > > seller spelled it) > > > > > > > Neither Dave or I are selling them but they work incredibly well. > > > Dave > > > > > > > told me about them and I am sharing them with you. Up until now I > > > used > > > > > my > > > > > > > ear to time my cylinder phonos. My triumph was right on, my > > > standard > > > > > was > > > > > > > 1.5 rpm high and my DD was low. Those of you with hundreds of > > > machines > > > > > can > > > > > > > have hours of fun. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=Wood%2FMetal+Lathe+Digital+LCD+Tachometer+RPM+Tool%2FGuage > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/632kqad > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
