On Thu, 2006-08-03 at 01:47 -0300, Manuel Lemos wrote: > Hello, > > on 08/03/2006 01:24 AM Robert Cummings said the following: > >>> What's the common consensus as to a solid PHP framework to use for > >>> application development? There seems to be a number of them out there, > >>> but I'm not sure which one's are the most robust, actively developed, > >>> secure, etc etc. > >>> > >>> Thoughts? > >> There is no common consense. PHP development is not very well organized, > >> like for instance in the Java world where several vendors can provide > >> their own implementations of the same specification. This makes possible > >> to use the same framework API from whatever vendor you prefer. > >> > >> In the PHP world all frameworks are incompatible, even when they attempt > >> to implement similar feature sets. > >> > >> Anyway, you may want to read this more in depth reflection of the state > >> of the PHP framework world and recommendations on how to pick what suits > >> best for you: > >> > >> http://www.phpclasses.org/blog/post/52-Recommended-PHP-frameworks.html > > > > I've read it before... it was crud. You provide no recommendation for > > any framework but instead try to pimp phpclasses. From what I gathered > > you haven't even actually tried anywhere in the vicinity of 10% of the > > frameworks in existence and yet you feel obliged to write a commenatary > > called "Recommended PHP Frameworks" in which you don't even recommend a > > framework. Additionally somehow while pimping phpclasses you also feel > > it necessary to indicate how you don't use any code other than what you > > write yourself. Egads, if you won't use the code on your site why the > > hell should anyone else? > > The answer to that question is in the post. I only use my own (PHP) > packages because I can. Not everybody can afford writing package for > their own needs from scratch. > > Why would I lie when that post expresses exactly how I feel? > > The point of the post is that there is no framework in particular to > recommend. I use my own packages for my needs. They suit me well. It > does not mean they will suit everybody.
How would you know that there is no framework to recommend if you neve ruse anyone's code but your own. How could you have possibly given any framework sufficient attention to have any idea of its pros and cons? > The PHPClasses site content is made of packages contributed by > developers that wrote their own packages. Those other packages often > serve the same purposes as some of my packages. > > I am pro-choice. That is the spirit of the PHPClasses site. Everybody > can publish their packages. Let the users be the judges of which are the > best for whatever purposes. That is pure fair play. Is that a bad thing? > I don't think so. > > I also would like to emphasize what I said above regarding the total > lack of organization and cooperation of the PHP community. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You're either pro-choice with a myriad of choices to choose from, or you're anti-choice and want only one framework style. Get of the fence! > > If there were standard specifications for packages and frameworks like > there is in the Java world, maybe you would not have this discussion. > There could be a consense to use the same standard API with eventual > multiple implementations from different developers or vendors. > > Imagine if there would be only one PDBC (JDBC for PHP). Instead of that > we have a never ending choice of PHP database abstraction layers that > does not help newcoming developers that are lost and don't know what to use. You presume that any chosen standard methodology or whatever you want to call it would be correct. Because if it wasn't correct, no matter how organized you think a community might be, something different WILL emerge. Right now there may be 100 frameworks, probably still growing, but not all will be accepted into mainstream use, and that ultimately will determine which one's have staying power or at the very least -- which ones have reach. The fact that there are so many is a testament to how easy it is to manipulate the power placed in the hands of the PHP developer. It is not indicative of disorganization within the community. > This is admitidly a criticism to the lack of organization of the whole > PHP community including myself. We are all guilty for this mess and I am > afraid there is not much hope to fix it. You mean we should all be happy that so much choice is available! Cheers, Rob. -- .------------------------------------------------------------. | InterJinn Application Framework - http://www.interjinn.com | :------------------------------------------------------------: | An application and templating framework for PHP. Boasting | | a powerful, scalable system for accessing system services | | such as forms, properties, sessions, and caches. InterJinn | | also provides an extremely flexible architecture for | | creating re-usable components quickly and easily. | `------------------------------------------------------------' -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
