My personal take on this goes something like this:

I'm not a huge fan of re-inventing the wheel. However, it seems that since
the first stable release of PHP 5 into the wild a much needed emphasis has
been placed on OOP solutions within the PHP world. Don't read me wrong, I
know the importance wasn't lost on folks who already had a good programming
head on their shoulders, yet, in all fairness our hands were a bit tied (and
I feel that I may receive some argument here) until PHP 5 reached its first
stable release. 

That being said, I find that quite a few of the frameworks still seem to be
fledglings and a lot of the new OS projects being built on them are like
wheels with some lumps. Even a few commercial projects seem to be like this.
I also have a positive outlook with PHP5 and 6 and that is that this
language is finally reaching maturity. It is something that I believe and
hope allow for continued growth of our new projects without feeling the need
to dump them like I saw with the PHP4 projects. 

On a final rambling note, I like some of the new frameworks I've looked into
recently, like CodeIgniter, Yii even Sapphire holds some promise (have a
look at the cleaner version in progress). I find myself wanting to add to
them, wanting to help improve them and occasionally I too have a fleeting
moment where I think "How would my framework be different if I built one
from scratch?" Then I realize I don't have that kind of time! lol My clients
are waiting. Also, I don't seem to have much trouble switching between
frameworks or languages for that matter (PERL, PHP, ASP(bleh), JavaScript,
ActionScript) and I guess because of that I find myself just trying to find
the best solution for the clients need at hand and build from there.


-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Kolbo [] 
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:54 PM
Cc: Tony Marston
Subject: [PHP] Frameworks / obstinate?

Tony Marston wrote:
> "Nitsan Bin-Nun" <> wrote in message 
>> Don't forget to attach the message to the list.
>> Regarding the frameworks, which of them, for your opinion, will take the
>> fastest time to learn and get into code?
> Generally speaking if something is fast to learn it is also the first to
> out of steam. If it doesn't have more features than you can learn in five 
> minutes the it doesn't have enough features to do anything useful, or with

> any degree of flexibility.

I changed the subject because I did not want to steal Nitsan's thread.
There seem to be a ton of frameworks, one-click installation web 
applications, the latest and greatest wiz-bang applications out there.  
I find myself extremely reluctant to dig into these code sets.  It seems 
when I do attempt to use one of these pre-coded applications I end up 
eventually wanting to modify the code outside of the original extent of 
the project.  Invariably I get frustrated and end up wishing I initially 
begun the development from scratch.  Employers seem to be wanting me to 
have experience with all kinds of 'gimicky' solutions, but I am 
reluctant to be constantly learning new applications (that i'd prefer to 
rewrite myself).  Am I just being hard headed and reluctant to change, 
or is my stance justified?  I suppose the answer is the middle-path.  
That is, read some new projects, take the bits I like, leave the bits I 
don't, etc...The problem is this isn't very marketable.  But I suppose, 
the proof is in the pudding.  What a banal way to end an email, eh?

What are your thoughts in regard to these two forces: wiz-bang 
frameworks vs. raw php development?

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