Marc Christopher Hall wrote:
My personal take on this goes something like this:

I'm not a huge fan of re-inventing the wheel. However, it seems that since
the first stable release of PHP 5 into the wild a much needed emphasis has
been placed on OOP solutions within the PHP world. Don't read me wrong, I
know the importance wasn't lost on folks who already had a good programming
head on their shoulders, yet, in all fairness our hands were a bit tied (and
I feel that I may receive some argument here) until PHP 5 reached its first
stable release.
That being said, I find that quite a few of the frameworks still seem to be
fledglings and a lot of the new OS projects being built on them are like
wheels with some lumps. Even a few commercial projects seem to be like this.
I also have a positive outlook with PHP5 and 6 and that is that this
language is finally reaching maturity. It is something that I believe and
hope allow for continued growth of our new projects without feeling the need
to dump them like I saw with the PHP4 projects.
On a final rambling note, I like some of the new frameworks I've looked into
recently, like CodeIgniter, Yii even Sapphire holds some promise (have a
look at the cleaner version in progress). I find myself wanting to add to
them, wanting to help improve them and occasionally I too have a fleeting
moment where I think "How would my framework be different if I built one
from scratch?" Then I realize I don't have that kind of time! lol My clients
are waiting. Also, I don't seem to have much trouble switching between
frameworks or languages for that matter (PERL, PHP, ASP(bleh), JavaScript,
ActionScript) and I guess because of that I find myself just trying to find
the best solution for the clients need at hand and build from there.

-----Original Message-----
From: Daniel Kolbo [] Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 4:54 PM
Cc: Tony Marston
Subject: [PHP] Frameworks / obstinate?

Tony Marston wrote:
"Nitsan Bin-Nun" <> wrote in message
Don't forget to attach the message to the list.

Regarding the frameworks, which of them, for your opinion, will take the
fastest time to learn and get into code?
Generally speaking if something is fast to learn it is also the first to
out of steam. If it doesn't have more features than you can learn in five minutes the it doesn't have enough features to do anything useful, or with

any degree of flexibility.


I changed the subject because I did not want to steal Nitsan's thread.
There seem to be a ton of frameworks, one-click installation web applications, the latest and greatest wiz-bang applications out there. I find myself extremely reluctant to dig into these code sets. It seems when I do attempt to use one of these pre-coded applications I end up eventually wanting to modify the code outside of the original extent of the project. Invariably I get frustrated and end up wishing I initially begun the development from scratch. Employers seem to be wanting me to have experience with all kinds of 'gimicky' solutions, but I am reluctant to be constantly learning new applications (that i'd prefer to rewrite myself). Am I just being hard headed and reluctant to change, or is my stance justified? I suppose the answer is the middle-path. That is, read some new projects, take the bits I like, leave the bits I don't, etc...The problem is this isn't very marketable. But I suppose, the proof is in the pudding. What a banal way to end an email, eh?

What are your thoughts in regard to these two forces: wiz-bang frameworks vs. raw php development?

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Thanks for the thoughts. [quote]I find myself just trying to find the best solution for the clients need at hand and build from there.[/quote] Certainly the above is the mainstream/business approach. After all, they (businesses) need solutions today and not tomorrow. However, this is the culture that only serves to exemplify my point. All of these one-click-solutions are for today, who is looking out for tomorrow? Who is doing the long term planning? Instead of our snake oil salesmen, who is selling long term stability/flexibility. Is it even possible to make money when thinking about the long term. Is there money for the conservative visionary or is it only for the radical lose cannon. I guess I really ought to set up a web maintenance company for all of these businesses that are going to find their framework has 'run out of steam' in a few years (or tomorrow).

P.S. I realize that this debate parallels the whole US economy, but, alas, when will fundamentals be rewarded...

P.P.S. I was blown away, perhaps you could even say i was ignited, when I first saw code video demonstration of CodeIgnitor

P.P.P.S. What might be nice is to have an online repository of "PHP community approved" classes, then programmers could mix and match 'modules' as needed...well now I am sounding like that snake oil salesman.

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