Eric,
You have a point. But, take into consideration
that not all services/apps are simple to migrate like
the ones you mentioned.
Web/mail/ftp/dial-up/print/proxy/firewall/name/file
servers are easy to migrate but what about the other
servers which have custom made apps?? clustered
solutions?
I'm not saying that linux can't do what unix or M$
servers can do. My concern on the server end are the
ff.:
1. application license issues
- I'm not referring to out of the box apps
I'm talking about business apps which are
custom made for the govt. institutions that
come from consulting companies...home grown
confidential apps.
2. porting issues
- I know there are lots of developers out there
who wants to go out and port any application
from one platform to another but this is not
kid's game. Porting apps takes time.
3. legal issues, copyright and etc...
someone raised the issue on bundling
staroffice from sun....that can be worked
out coz sun gives it away anyway but
business apps are mostly not free.
4. support issues
After porting the apps...who's going to
support
it? If a software written by accenture(aka
andersen consulting)for a specific platform
and this project successfully ported that
application...will accenture still support
this new configuration? If you load linux on
a proprietary hardware like sun...will they
support that configuration? If your response
is to replace proprietary hardware/software
...then I warn you about "RETURN OF
INVESTMENT" issues that will come up once
you justify these in the next budget meeting.
There are lot's of things you need to put into
consideration on the server and this differs from site
to site. But on the desktop, assuming there are no
custom-made front end apps on the desktop...you
already
have most of the user's requirements(e.g. staroffice,
evolution..etc.., and telnet/x or whatever access to
the linux/unix server then you're ok already.
Training and porting of docs and macros are the only
things left.
M$ started from the PC and went onwards....linux can
do the same if it truly is up to the challenge. I
disagree to the fact that user's will be persuaded by
showing them that the the sysads have a great linux OS
on their
server....if that was the case....Solaris and
staroffice would have dominated the desktop before
linux came bec. it has dominated the unix server
market ..right?
The servers are transparent to users...
what they see are their desktops...so that's where the
project
will have most of the resistance. Sysads are easy to
please
or convince but they will not go with this plan if
they think they'll just have more phone calls from the
users. Don't get me wrong...I'm not saying that
we propose to the users....let their IT dept. do it
but give the sysads the tools to prove it...and that's
through good desktop solutions then migrate the
servers later on....migrating desktops will come first
before servers due to the aforementioned concerns.
The users are usually the ones
doing the work...we just support them with whatever
makes them more productive in what they do.
So, siguro it's better kung gawin nating flexible
yung project para it can cater to diff. scenarios
like:
1. windows client and windows server
- replace all with linux!!! hehehe
actually mas mahirap mag-port ng apps from
M$ to linux compared sa unix to linux..pero
no choice dito eh....diba?
2. windows client and unix server
- replace windows client with linux
- replace unix server only if :
* it has maxed out it's upgrade options
* it's in the retirement period already
* there's no more support for the product
* ref. to the issues I stated earlier.
3. unix clients and unix server:
- replace unix clients if:
* hardware is supported by linux
* vendor supports linux on their hardware
* hardware is no longer upgradeable
- replace server based on what I said in item 2
4. unix clients and M$ servers:
duh!
Note: we have considered M$ and unix alone...how
about
those other platforms used on the server end???
There's no complete solution to servers. That's why
we have to look for what's common first.. attack that
then go after the challenging ones next.
common ang desktop diba?
may mga common services sa servers...we can go ahead
with them as well..bakit hindi...kaso may issues nga
lang talaga sa ibang servers.
Ppl,
I agree that this thread is getting long
so, maybe it's better if we have a separate mailing
list just for this specific project.
Soc =)
--- neuroticimbecile <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thursday 20 September 2001 22:14, you wrote:
> >
> > hmm... this happens because those in charge of
> maintaining those servers
> > has the advantage (probably) of being techies.
> they (probably) know
> > something about what they want to do. when we talk
> of desktop systems, iba
> > na ang labanan diyan. personally, i feel that most
> desktop users are just
> > lazy to learn or re-learn things. for them, it's
> better to stay inside
> > their comfort zones.
>
> hi there,
>
> that is true, and usually, those techies who are in
> charge of maintaining the
> servers are the ones who handle techsupport for the
> people using desktops.
> also, those techies often have a say in the policies
> of the organization,
> e.g. "we're going to try linux on the desktops".
> laziness won't be an excuse
> from learning or re-learning things once the
> organization adopts new policies
> on their desktops. hey, it's the org's pc's anyway,
> diba?
>
> most if not all of the orgs i've seen migrating
> their desktops to linux have
> done so from top to bottom, i.e. the techies who
> handle servers first
> becoming linux converts before the org notices and
> creates a policy for
> migrating all (or most) of their desktops to linux.
>
> in fact, in circumstances where in ordinary desktop
> users are the ones who
> try to initiate the change to linux, they are
> helpless until they convert one
> or more techies, or key management people.
>
> ...just from observation.
>
> anyway, this is getting off topic.
> me shut up now :)
> -eric
> --
> �.--. �Enrique D. Rosel II � � � � � � � � � �
> office://+63.2.894.3592/
> ( () ) Q Linux Solutions, Inc.
> �`--\\ A Philippine Open Source Solutions Co.
> �http://www.q-linux.com/
> _
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