proc psaux <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Ramil Sagum wrote:
>
>> Wag tayong magsalita ng tapos. We think OSS is such a good thing kasi we're
>> using it and most of our friends are OSS users in much the same way as
>> Microsofties think their software is good because they use it, they
>> participate in development and most of the people they know are Microsofties.
>
> It's not a good thing just *because* we're using it. I'm a computer hobbyist
> and my first exposure is digital unix in 1988. No formal computer education
> whatsoever ('cept for the required wordstar and lotus123 in college). I didn't
> get into nix and oss just because I came to use it. I discovered it and I
> thought it was way better than what microsoft has to offer back then. I
> believe this until now. Appearance-wise we may see oss apps mimicking win32
> but we all know this is to "guide" win32 users to shift to linux. Nix has the
> best apps and microsoft copied it right from the start (you think your msdos
> commands are a microsoft invention? Even windowing systems were started by
> Xerox not ms.) Microsoft is good at copying technology and using the
> terminology as a trademark (the term windows is not their invention).
>Yes. Copying is a Microsoft innovation. Its worse than mimicry (which is what FOSS is doing right now ;) because the copying is sanctioned by NDAs and EULAs, which are recognized by law. Thank God they didn't copy the GPL and bastardize it to the point of becoming a puppet republic... > We all know they are dipping into oss just for the bucks. Microsoft is a > business and it will continue to function that way till ends time. > > If you're the richest guy in the world, would you stop? I don't think so. > It *will* stop. It has to. And Bill knows this. So did Hitler, Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, and all those great men in history. Soon Bill will be history too, and it's ever looming near. And for those of us unfortunate to exist at this time, well, we should wait for say, another 30 to 50 years till doomsday... > >> It's good developers and enthusiasts. But not good for companies. Walang >> guaranteed support. Wala silang isusue kung di gumana yung product. Walang >> warranty etc. Companies need to depend on the whim of volunteer developers >> halfway around the world. > > The latter is a really good discussion point: while OS people in most cases do > care about making end-users life easier, in cases like that it is always "shut > up and patch up" stance coming from OS developers, which does turn some > end-users away from using OS software, but improves in overall > security. However, MS would think twice if they have to do something that > would make end-users uneasy because it would force them to change the way they > do with their computers - XP service pack 2, if it is true that it might break > a lot of existing applications due to severe changes in the kernel, is a good > example. Customer satisfaction plays a great role for MS (this is just how it > should be in any business), but it seems that they're willing to sacrifice a > lot to keep customers belive they're using the most comfortable software in > this part of Universe. > > If I want reliability, I'd stick to OpenBSD. > > >> Ah! But there are microsoft fanatics! As I said, puro OSS fanatics lang kasi >> kilala natin. > > Oss people love to code and share their code. We all have fun doing that and > that's why I'm into nix. I use ms plainly for games. My wife uses ms as a > typewriter. I think there's more heart in oss than ms. Two very different > idealogies. > How true. I primarily use WinXP too as a gaming rig, especially when I get new full games from CGW, on DVD. Deus Ex is pretty cool... My old folks also use the OS as a glorified typewriter. But now I've deployed SuSE Pro 9.1 to serve as a private database server, which WinXP should really do without any problem, except for the security issues. I *don't* patch up with Service Packs, I know they're gonna be trouble than they're worth... > >> >3. Opensource has no Service Pack waiting.. coz you know the >> >technology, you can fix it ASAP yourself and for good karma you can >> >share that to the rest of the community. >> *IF* you can fix it. Normal users (the majority) have to wait for the whim >> of volunteers. >> > > Majority of which appears within a week, not counting the 0-day diffs. As for > ms, there are still holes out there waiting to be plugged that's even older > than my 2-year old kid. > Hehe... and while they're at it, could they send in a plumber in here to fix my leaky U-pipe? ;P > Do not forget that Microsoft doesn't play security game like Open Source > people do. It is two different worlds, really. While OS people might just sit > down, write a patch and publish it, MS people would have to write patch, > submit it to QA, see that it doesn't break something else, see that it doesn't > make the end-user experience less comfortable, and only then release it to the > public (takes time, doesn't it?). > Actually FOSS folks also follow the time-tested path of sitting down and gulping beer, look at the source, think, write a patch, try, debug, try again till patch is good enough to be seen by QA, QA takes a look, approves it, then gets published, and the end user jumps in joy. Only that it takes less time 'coz there's an absence of corporate bureaucracy and boardroom humdrums. Even Debian, with its highly bureaucratic hierarchy, manages to get patches rolling in at least an hour... All thanks to the collective intelligence of the hacking community. > Technically, it wouldn't be too hard to do very few steps that could eradicate > worms/viruses issue as it is present today: if MS would stop shipping MSIE and > OE to force people to use third party software, and if they disable some of > the features of scripting language used in MS Office, they would disintegrate > this monoculture and provide harsh ground for new malware. It isn't so hard to > do, but there's this question of end-user experience. People do love to have > all those nifty features, although they use 10-20% of them (but "let it just > sit there, you never know..."); take most of that unneeded features away, and > your customer satisfaction starts to slip. They might be more secure, but they > wouldn't like it. End-users, that is. You have to keep them happy, in one way > or another. > In contrast to Emacs. That OTE really keeps people from getting themselves burned, until they're ready. [EMAIL PROTECTED] the end users: they're not paying a software development company just to give then candy, they're parting with their hard-earned cash for a souped-up, secure, reliable system so they can earn more. > Now, why MS failed to fix this problem is beyond my comprehension, but it > isn't first time it took them a lot of time to provide a fix. However, it > seems that this doesn't hurt their sales. This might be because all that > customers care about is if they can do something with some tool, not how > secure (and reliable) it is. If it wasn't that way, we would talk about > majority of people using Linux or MacOS and OpenOffice, wouldn't we? > Yes. A friend of mine is a good example. Being a user of a glorified typewriter for years, he complains when he can't get something to work in OpenOffice.org, and goes back to pirated Office XP instead. So, even as I explain to him that I can send him to jail and I take a cool $1M from the BSA, he simply doesn't care. What he _cares_ about, is what he *can do* with the app, not what he *can't do* with it. Thanks Microsoft: you've given rise to the Monolith of Hell for us FOSS hackers to endure, for a very, very long time... > > Ah, and apropos your accountability question - haven't you read your EULA? ;-) > EULAs are as good as there is an end user. But what if your end user is a machine, or a sentient program, or a Mossad Agent? Then that'll be a hard match... >> I could go on and on. Pero basically, yun, maganda lang yung tingin natin >> kasi developers tayo. Sa normal user's point of view, Microsoft is a lot >> better. (to _The Sword of Truth_ readers, it would be the wizard's >> first rule.) >> > > Not for me. My day job is completely not computer-related. I'm a hobbyist. I > was into unix even before the internet boom in RP. > > What do you mean by normal users? Majority of users sure. Ms has seeped into > every corner of the world that's why it has become an unofficial standard for > office and household use. > > Not better. Easier. Just that. No other reason. Exactly. Easier. If it's ``better'', then it's only because a four-year-old kid only knows Windows, and nothing else. Thus, the comparison is invalid in the first place, as there is nothing to compare. > >> I bet theres an analogous Microsoftie mailing list out there bashing OSS. >> =) >> > > As there are forums that say Jesus is an alien. > Tell that to the Pope. Cheers, Zakame -- |=-------------ZAK B. ELEP (Registered Linux User #327585)-------------=| || Web: http://zakame.spunge.org GPG ID: 0xFA53851D || || http://zakame.homelinux.org ICQ UIN: 33236644 || || Location: Daet, Camarines Norte Running Linux 2.6 || |=----------1486 7957 454D E529 E4F1 F75E 5787 B1FD FA53 851D----------=| Debian - When you've got better things to do than to fix a borken system
pgpeOgA7vdONW.pgp
Description: PGP signature
-- Philippine Linux Users' Group (PLUG) Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] (#PLUG @ irc.free.net.ph) Official Website: http://plug.linux.org.ph Searchable Archives: http://marc.free.net.ph . To leave, go to http://lists.q-linux.com/mailman/listinfo/plug . Are you a Linux newbie? To join the newbie list, go to http://lists.q-linux.com/mailman/listinfo/ph-linux-newbie
