(responding from my gmail account now) So sure, there are technical nuances that are the underlying cause of this behavior. However, the whole point of a computer is consistent execution of a given policy. Regardless of protonmail's stance on this there are a number of problems with the way they have communicated it, expectations they have set, and even the technical side itself is in question.
Mailing lists are a fact of how email is used. By configuring your server in a way that causes this situation you are effectively disabling support for things like Linux Kernel development (they work through the LKML). Saying that your Secure Email Service can't be used to assist in the development of one of the world's biggest Secure Operating Systems hardly seems like a reasonable business strategy. I'm not a dev or engineer, but I am an expert in Support and this is something that companies need to stop doing. I'm going through their support docs and have yet to find anything stating what I was just told. No FAQ's referencing this or any other warnings that this is not supported. There is also the double standard that the UI literally knows how to differentiate normal emails from list emails by displaying a message that says "This message is from a mailing list". Ths implies that protonmail does in fact support interop with mailman, despite their support team's claim that they do not. Their website (https://proton.me/mail) also suggests that mailing lists can be used with their service. So why am I now being told that they don't support it? I pay protonmail SPECIFICALLY for the honesty and support that comes with being a paying customer. I don't complain too harshly about the dumb shit gmail does because it costs me $0 to have gmail. If you don't like what google does - LEAVE. Not only am I considering cancelling my subscription, but I have half a mind to reach out to a lawyer and see if this can be considered false advertising. I really don't care who is to blame for this shit, because upper managers at tech companies need to learn how to keep their entire organization synchronized. Selling access to a web service isn't just about how it works. It's about setting expectations and building trust. And in this case, a bunch of scientists from CERN just abused my trust and I can either challenge them on a field of facts... or I can "lie back and take it". Since PLUG has several other protonmail users, I suggest they contact support and ask what's up. -Ben On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:22 AM Jason Barbier <ja...@corrupted.io> wrote: > I can tell you they are right and wrong, I get protonmail replies from the > list but I had to go monkey around with my spam settings to ensure they > land in my inbox. What they do is have all their spam controls like dmarc > and spf set to hard fail, when your service evaluates the message PLUGs > mail servers are not on the allow list, your servers spam filters do what > they do which for a lot of people its stuff it in the big dev null in the > sky. Now the part where protonmail is wrong is they can't force my servers > to do anything what they do with the info protonmail gives me is still in > my control. > There is little that can be done to fix this, the only real way to fix it > is changing the mailman behavior to send from an address on the plug domain > which has its own problems. The only reason that is the only real way is > regardless of protonmail or any other service changing parts of thier spam > controls mailman is still spoofing addresses and will still fail dkim and > other more advanced controls, and it would honestly not be a workable > solution to try and allow list serves to send as your domain. This breaks a > lot of the behavior of things like listservs but spammers and advertisers > once again ruin something for everyone > > On 18 at 08:01 someone claiming to be Ben Koenig said: > > Hi all, > > > > As I've mentioned recently, I've been having trouble receiving emails > > from this list when the sender is using a protonmail.com account. Since > > this appears to be protonmail specific, I contacted their support team, > > provided an example message (with timestamp) and confirmed that this > > was through a mailing list (running Mailman). Here is the response I > > got: > > > > """ > > Hello, > > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > > Please note that sending a message on a behalf of Proton Mail by using > > a third-party service is not allowed, and that's the reason why you > > didn't receive the message. > > > > We set our system that way in order to protect Proton Mail’s IP > > reputation and ensure all messages sent from Proton Mail are delivered > > to your recipient’s inbox — not their spam folder > > > > We apologize for not being able to assist you on this matter. > > > > Kind regards, > > > > Filip F. > > Customer Support > > Proton Mail > > > > """ > > > > Obviously I'm not pleased with that response. BUT I faintly recall > > someone else on this list using this particular service once replied to > > one of my emails, but of course I never saw it, just another user's > > reply. > > > > For any protonmail users on PLUG that do receive this message, can you > > please reply to verify that you did? According to their support team > > under no circumstances should you be seeing this message. > > > > Given that I likely won't see your response, also send a different > > email (+different subject) to me directly so that I can compare. > > -Ben > > -- > --- > GPG: https://corrupted.io/kusuriya.pub >
