Well, it appears that Proton has made their decision and are blaming PLUG for this issue.
>From there support team: *> Filip F.* (ProtonMail) > Jan 20, 2023, 16:26 GMT+1 > Hello Ben, > Thanks for the feedback. We apologize for the delayed response. > Yes, that's correct. Proton Mail does not allow third-party services to send messages on our behalf. > Third-party servers should not use any Proton Mail address as the "From Address" of an email. Emails sent this way would be dropped because they would use an incorrect From Address. > Thank you for your understanding. > Kind regards, > Filip F. > Customer Support > Proton Mail """ I still don't buy this, simply because if Proton wants to say that any message where there is a discrepancy between the sender domain and the "from" domain must be dropped, they should do so consistently. They let through everyone else so I still call BS on them. BUT, is PLUG in any way different from how other mailing lists operate? i.e. LKML or any of the lists used by various distros. If the PLUG lists are configured the way everyone does it then Proton is basically saying everyone except them is doing it wrong. -Ben On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:22 AM Kevin Williams <ke...@k9w.org> wrote: > Ben, > > I started migrating from Gmail to ProtonMail a few years ago, bought a > paid plan, and parked my domain with them. > > I switched to Fastmail about four months ago, because proton mail does not > support Mutt, or any email client without their local decryption bridge > installed (no support for the BSDs). > > I still have a proton account, but without my domain there, and on the > free plan. It’s a recovery address in case anything happens with my domain. > > Kevin > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023, at 6:57 PM, Ben Koenig wrote: > > Testing a working around. Father unit noticed some discrepencies with > protonmail interop on other mailman lists. > > > > > > -Ben > > > > > > ------- Original Message ------- > > On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 8:55 AM, Ben Koenig < > techkoe...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > (responding from my gmail account now) > > > > > > So sure, there are technical nuances that are the underlying cause of > this > > > behavior. However, the whole point of a computer is consistent > execution of > > > a given policy. Regardless of protonmail's stance on this there are a > > > number of problems with the way they have communicated it, expectations > > > they have set, and even the technical side itself is in question. > > > > > > Mailing lists are a fact of how email is used. By configuring your > server > > > in a way that causes this situation you are effectively disabling > support > > > for things like Linux Kernel development (they work through the LKML). > > > Saying that your Secure Email Service can't be used to assist in the > > > development of one of the world's biggest Secure Operating Systems > hardly > > > seems like a reasonable business strategy. I'm not a dev or engineer, > but I > > > am an expert in Support and this is something that companies need to > stop > > > doing. I'm going through their support docs and have yet to find > anything > > > stating what I was just told. No FAQ's referencing this or any other > > > warnings that this is not supported. > > > > > > There is also the double standard that the UI literally knows how to > > > differentiate normal emails from list emails by displaying a message > that > > > says "This message is from a mailing list". Ths implies that protonmail > > > does in fact support interop with mailman, despite their support team's > > > claim that they do not. Their website (https://proton.me/mail) also > > > suggests that mailing lists can be used with their service. So why am > I now > > > being told that they don't support it? > > > > > > I pay protonmail SPECIFICALLY for the honesty and support that comes > with > > > being a paying customer. I don't complain too harshly about the dumb > shit > > > gmail does because it costs me $0 to have gmail. If you don't like what > > > google does - LEAVE. Not only am I considering cancelling my > subscription, > > > but I have half a mind to reach out to a lawyer and see if this can be > > > considered false advertising. I really don't care who is to blame for > this > > > shit, because upper managers at tech companies need to learn how to > keep > > > their entire organization synchronized. > > > > > > Selling access to a web service isn't just about how it works. It's > about > > > setting expectations and building trust. And in this case, a bunch of > > > scientists from CERN just abused my trust and I can either challenge > them > > > on a field of facts... or I can "lie back and take it". Since PLUG has > > > several other protonmail users, I suggest they contact support and ask > > > what's up. > > > > > > -Ben > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:22 AM Jason Barbier ja...@corrupted.io > wrote: > > > > > > > I can tell you they are right and wrong, I get protonmail replies > from the > > > > list but I had to go monkey around with my spam settings to ensure > they > > > > land in my inbox. What they do is have all their spam controls like > dmarc > > > > and spf set to hard fail, when your service evaluates the message > PLUGs > > > > mail servers are not on the allow list, your servers spam filters do > what > > > > they do which for a lot of people its stuff it in the big dev null > in the > > > > sky. Now the part where protonmail is wrong is they can't force my > servers > > > > to do anything what they do with the info protonmail gives me is > still in > > > > my control. > > > > There is little that can be done to fix this, the only real way to > fix it > > > > is changing the mailman behavior to send from an address on the plug > domain > > > > which has its own problems. The only reason that is the only real > way is > > > > regardless of protonmail or any other service changing parts of > thier spam > > > > controls mailman is still spoofing addresses and will still fail > dkim and > > > > other more advanced controls, and it would honestly not be a workable > > > > solution to try and allow list serves to send as your domain. This > breaks a > > > > lot of the behavior of things like listservs but spammers and > advertisers > > > > once again ruin something for everyone > > > > > > > > On 18 at 08:01 someone claiming to be Ben Koenig said: > > > > > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > As I've mentioned recently, I've been having trouble receiving > emails > > > > > from this list when the sender is using a protonmail.com account. > Since > > > > > this appears to be protonmail specific, I contacted their support > team, > > > > > provided an example message (with timestamp) and confirmed that > this > > > > > was through a mailing list (running Mailman). Here is the response > I > > > > > got: > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that sending a message on a behalf of Proton Mail by > using > > > > > a third-party service is not allowed, and that's the reason why you > > > > > didn't receive the message. > > > > > > > > > > We set our system that way in order to protect Proton Mail’s IP > > > > > reputation and ensure all messages sent from Proton Mail are > delivered > > > > > to your recipient’s inbox — not their spam folder > > > > > > > > > > We apologize for not being able to assist you on this matter. > > > > > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > > > > > Filip F. > > > > > Customer Support > > > > > Proton Mail > > > > > > > > > > """ > > > > > > > > > > Obviously I'm not pleased with that response. BUT I faintly recall > > > > > someone else on this list using this particular service once > replied to > > > > > one of my emails, but of course I never saw it, just another user's > > > > > reply. > > > > > > > > > > For any protonmail users on PLUG that do receive this message, can > you > > > > > please reply to verify that you did? According to their support > team > > > > > under no circumstances should you be seeing this message. > > > > > > > > > > Given that I likely won't see your response, also send a different > > > > > email (+different subject) to me directly so that I can compare. > > > > > -Ben > > > > > > > > -- > > > > --- > > > > GPG: https://corrupted.io/kusuriya.pub > > >
