Testing a working around. Father unit noticed some discrepencies with protonmail interop on other mailman lists.
-Ben ------- Original Message ------- On Wednesday, January 18th, 2023 at 8:55 AM, Ben Koenig <techkoe...@gmail.com> wrote: > (responding from my gmail account now) > > So sure, there are technical nuances that are the underlying cause of this > behavior. However, the whole point of a computer is consistent execution of > a given policy. Regardless of protonmail's stance on this there are a > number of problems with the way they have communicated it, expectations > they have set, and even the technical side itself is in question. > > Mailing lists are a fact of how email is used. By configuring your server > in a way that causes this situation you are effectively disabling support > for things like Linux Kernel development (they work through the LKML). > Saying that your Secure Email Service can't be used to assist in the > development of one of the world's biggest Secure Operating Systems hardly > seems like a reasonable business strategy. I'm not a dev or engineer, but I > am an expert in Support and this is something that companies need to stop > doing. I'm going through their support docs and have yet to find anything > stating what I was just told. No FAQ's referencing this or any other > warnings that this is not supported. > > There is also the double standard that the UI literally knows how to > differentiate normal emails from list emails by displaying a message that > says "This message is from a mailing list". Ths implies that protonmail > does in fact support interop with mailman, despite their support team's > claim that they do not. Their website (https://proton.me/mail) also > suggests that mailing lists can be used with their service. So why am I now > being told that they don't support it? > > I pay protonmail SPECIFICALLY for the honesty and support that comes with > being a paying customer. I don't complain too harshly about the dumb shit > gmail does because it costs me $0 to have gmail. If you don't like what > google does - LEAVE. Not only am I considering cancelling my subscription, > but I have half a mind to reach out to a lawyer and see if this can be > considered false advertising. I really don't care who is to blame for this > shit, because upper managers at tech companies need to learn how to keep > their entire organization synchronized. > > Selling access to a web service isn't just about how it works. It's about > setting expectations and building trust. And in this case, a bunch of > scientists from CERN just abused my trust and I can either challenge them > on a field of facts... or I can "lie back and take it". Since PLUG has > several other protonmail users, I suggest they contact support and ask > what's up. > > -Ben > > > > On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:22 AM Jason Barbier ja...@corrupted.io wrote: > > > I can tell you they are right and wrong, I get protonmail replies from the > > list but I had to go monkey around with my spam settings to ensure they > > land in my inbox. What they do is have all their spam controls like dmarc > > and spf set to hard fail, when your service evaluates the message PLUGs > > mail servers are not on the allow list, your servers spam filters do what > > they do which for a lot of people its stuff it in the big dev null in the > > sky. Now the part where protonmail is wrong is they can't force my servers > > to do anything what they do with the info protonmail gives me is still in > > my control. > > There is little that can be done to fix this, the only real way to fix it > > is changing the mailman behavior to send from an address on the plug domain > > which has its own problems. The only reason that is the only real way is > > regardless of protonmail or any other service changing parts of thier spam > > controls mailman is still spoofing addresses and will still fail dkim and > > other more advanced controls, and it would honestly not be a workable > > solution to try and allow list serves to send as your domain. This breaks a > > lot of the behavior of things like listservs but spammers and advertisers > > once again ruin something for everyone > > > > On 18 at 08:01 someone claiming to be Ben Koenig said: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > As I've mentioned recently, I've been having trouble receiving emails > > > from this list when the sender is using a protonmail.com account. Since > > > this appears to be protonmail specific, I contacted their support team, > > > provided an example message (with timestamp) and confirmed that this > > > was through a mailing list (running Mailman). Here is the response I > > > got: > > > > > > """ > > > Hello, > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback. > > > > > > Please note that sending a message on a behalf of Proton Mail by using > > > a third-party service is not allowed, and that's the reason why you > > > didn't receive the message. > > > > > > We set our system that way in order to protect Proton Mail’s IP > > > reputation and ensure all messages sent from Proton Mail are delivered > > > to your recipient’s inbox — not their spam folder > > > > > > We apologize for not being able to assist you on this matter. > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > > > > Filip F. > > > Customer Support > > > Proton Mail > > > > > > """ > > > > > > Obviously I'm not pleased with that response. BUT I faintly recall > > > someone else on this list using this particular service once replied to > > > one of my emails, but of course I never saw it, just another user's > > > reply. > > > > > > For any protonmail users on PLUG that do receive this message, can you > > > please reply to verify that you did? According to their support team > > > under no circumstances should you be seeing this message. > > > > > > Given that I likely won't see your response, also send a different > > > email (+different subject) to me directly so that I can compare. > > > -Ben > > > > -- > > --- > > GPG: https://corrupted.io/kusuriya.pub
