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Jeff,
I never even *began* to think that you were suggesting
anything other than helpful. Jeez, I've known you long enough to know
that, my friend. Never entered my mind, I promise.
I took it exactly as you meant it. It's all good.
:)
Respectfully,
Adam Phillip Churvis
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7
Developer
BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee
Get advanced intensive Master-level training in
C# & ASP.NET 2.0
for ColdFusion Developers at
ProductivityEnhancement.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 5:09
PM
Subject: Re: [plum] Show of Hands
Hi Adam,
Going back over this thread, it appears that I
didn't express myself very well, and the meaning of what I was trying to do
was lost. This actually wound up looking like I (we) were trying to wrestle
control of Plum away for you, which could not be further from the truth.
I posted the intial message in response to one of the older threads
from May 22nd, when we were kidding about your sunburn. In that thread you
said you would continue on with some fixes and asked for volunteers to help
with the table aliasing issue as well as some other minor fixes. At that
time I was busy and declined. I thought I would resurrect that thread by
seeing if I could rally some help in addition to myself to go forward with the
effort you mentioned.
Then we kind of got carried away with wishlists,
etc. At any rate I want to state emphatically, that my intent was to
provide some assistance with addressing those issues. I did not want to take
Plum away. I mentioned the name change and other stuff as potential
workarounds so that you wouldn't be bothered. Things were not stated
very clearly and I apologize. I hope you know me well enough to know I
wouldn't try to screw you like that.
I am trying to decide a future
direction for myself as far as technology is concerned also, whether I will
stay with CF and use Flex, or go to .NET. I know others on this list are doing
this as well. I guess I just wanted to know whether we were going to go
any further with Plum for CF, or whether we could call it a day, and start
working into another framework/toll for long term use. I haven't made up my
mind, although I have been messing with a lot of stuff. I just wanted to
see whether we would breath any extra life into Plum as it now stands. I
think the answer, based upon your responses is no. No bitter feelings
here on my part, I just want resolution :) haha.
At any rate my
apologies to all here, if this escalated into something it shouldn't
have.
On 9/3/06, Adam
Churvis <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Folks,
The basics of the license agreement would be to ensure we
retained ownership of both the derivative source code and the Plum
brand. As you can imagine, we didn't put three hard years into
developing this thing to just let it disappear. Also, we're going to
be developing a Plum.NET for our .NET-related work, so a name change would
be out of the question.
Plum.NET is much simpler than Plum for CF because the .NET
Framework handles most of what Plum-generated code was designed to do, and
this time we're selling it at a serious price so people take it
seriously. Even if we had tried to sell Plum for
CF, the CF market just wouldn't have supported it.
Please don't setup any source code projects until we have
this hammered out, which we should be able to do relatively quickly once
everyone's in agreement. We want to make sure that all the legalities
are handled before any actions are taken.
How does this sound to everyone?
Respectfully,
Adam Phillip Churvis
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7
Developer
BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee
![]()
Get advanced intensive Master-level training in
C# & ASP.NET 2.0 for ColdFusion Developers at
ProductivityEnhancement.com
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:23 AM
Subject:
Re: [plum] Show of Hands
Well, I think Adam was waiting for more input from folks
regarding how they would like to see Plum 'released to the public'. I
don't know to make any assumptions one way or another until we find out what
we can and can't do vis-a-vis the license agreement. There are a lot of
points to consider here.
1. Will the .NET IDE be upgraded?
Probably not. Is that ok with everyone? One you start introducing mods to
the default generated code, there is no going back. This is one of the
reasons why I don't use the code generator anymore unless I want to quickly
generate stored procedures. It is not round trip. Will folks still be
interested in using Plum if they can't use the IDE/codegen any longer?
2. Do we branch from the 1.0 version and call it something else so
that we can differentiate code bases to the community? Can we do this based
upon what Adam and David will or will not let us do.
I guess I am
fence-sitting for the time being until we have more info. If you guys
have any feedback for Adam, regarding licensing, please feel free to make
your voices heard.
Long term, I have a small hosting company and can
setup a forum and possibly a svn repository and trac, or something
similar. I do want to take it slow until we see what kind of momentum
we might get.
Adam, your thoughts?
On 9/2/06, mark
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Test...is the server
still working? 22 emails on 8/29 and 8/30 then
nothing?
Provided it works, Jeff
what is the next step?
Mark
Subject: Re: [plum] Show of
Hands
Jeff,
We'd certainly be involved regarding guidance, as we've
learned what does and doesn't work over the years of developing Plum, and
we've tried some things that never made it into production because they
either wouldn't work the way Plum was originally built or the feature was
just too cumbersome to code. That, and we have a number of "If only
we had done it *this* way instead" moments that came to light after using
it in production for a while. The most obvious one was the whole
name aliasing bit, but there are a few more.
Respectfully,
Adam Phillip Churvis
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7
Developer
BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee
![]()
Get advanced intensive Master-level training in
C# & ASP.NET 2.0 for ColdFusion
Developers at
ProductivityEnhancement.com
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:25 PM
Subject:
Re: [plum] Show of Hands
Hi Adam,
Great to hear from you.
I think
you have clarified things for me, as far as your direction. I think
releasing the framework and custom tags with your stipulations would be
a good step. I doubt in anyone in the CF community has any interest in
having the source to the IDE, though. To be able to handle that we would
have to be .NET developers, so I don't see the value in that.
I
too am interested in moving away from doing just websites, and have been
waffling between .NET and Flex/Apollo. I need to leverage as much
knowlege as possible, as it is tough to do project work and develop new
initiatives at the same time (as you know). I was thinking that
Plum might be able to assimilate some of this new technology in the
future and morph into a framework that could potentially generate web,
and/or distributed apps which have a desktop component.
Anyway, lets see what others say. I didn't want to imply
that I was going to take over Plum as an OSS project, because we all
know where the shareware model got you. Giving us to take it where
we want to individually might be a first step. Although, without
your direction and participation, I am not sure I want to go there.
Thoughts?
On 8/30/06, Adam
Churvis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Folks,
Just so you know, we're listening and trying to
decide how best to accommodate everyone.
Perhaps licensing the source code for both the IDE
and the Framework for public modification with a couple of
stipulations attached regarding proprietary rights. This would
certainly get everyone started improving Plum sooner and at their own
pace and in their own directions.
Plum is exactly the tool we wanted for our own use,
and it's been almost everything we've ever wanted for CF-based
sites. But our business is moving way beyond just websites
over the next year, so we need to release our hold on Plum so that
others can modify it as they see fit, when they see fit.
How would you all like to handle this? We're
open to any and all ideas.
Respectfully,
Adam Phillip Churvis
Certified Advanced ColdFusion MX 7
Developer
BlueDragon Alliance Founding Committee
![]()
Get advanced intensive Master-level training in
C# & ASP.NET 2.0 for ColdFusion
Developers at
ProductivityEnhancement.com
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
Tuesday, August 29, 2006 8:07 PM
Subject:
[plum] Show of Hands
Hey folks,
Can I get a show of hands of those of
you on the list that still actively use Plum to develop applications
(Adam and David, you don't count ;)? Is anybody interested in
seeing another version?
Adam mentioned several months ago that
there would be another version and was looking for volunteers to help
with the tasking. If enough people are interested, I think we
should take him up on it.
I still use Plum for all my
development, even though I have been experimenting with Fusebox,
ModelGlue, Ruby on Rails, and a little DotNet, and a little Flex over
the past 6-8 months. I am an independent developer working on
department-level applications, not working on an Enterprise team, and
I find that Plum just fits better for what I do than all the
Enterprise OOP frameworks out there. It is a testiment to the
foresight and skill of Adam and David that I find Plum more than
relevant still. While Plum offers so much out of the box, there
is still room for improvement and some bug fixes. And we need to
reach out to our non-Windows bretheren to try to get more traction and
momentum, or move on to other environments. I personally would like to
see Plum flourish, and so I am posting this message.
I was
recently going over the mailing list archives, and was amazed at how
active we were as a community only a year ago. Now it is like a
ghost town. I for one would like to see Plum resurrected and get
some community involvement going so we can remain relevant.
I
have some ideas for enhancements, and I'm sure those of you that still
use Plum do as well. But before we put the cart before the horse
- is anybody interested?
--
v/r,
Jeff Fleitz
--
v/r,
Jeff Fleitz
--
v/r,
Jeff Fleitz
--
v/r,
Jeff Fleitz
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