"Selling current J editors to somebody who is doing their programming in Visual Studio all day long, it's a hard sell. They'll most probably just laugh at you..."
For me, I don't mind making an exception when it comes to maths based functional / vector based stuff... but opening up J to other developers is a good thing. biological memory goes further with J. Interestingly, some F# developers go out of their way to switch off VS features. You may find a different mindset at play in this space. I don't profess to know the answer... just thought you might like to hear a few thoughts. On 5 April 2013 07:43, Greg Borota <[email protected]> wrote: > Selling current J editors to somebody who is doing their programming in > Visual Studio all day long, it's a hard sell. They'll most probably just > laugh at you... > > And when you deal with huge programs developed over timespans like years > and with many developers, biological memory starts to show its limits.... > And then Intellisense, QuickInfo, quickly jumping around, etc. are your > friends on which you don't want to easily give up. > > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Steven Taylor <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I'd like better VS integration, but I can't really justify the effort > > needed since JHS / GTK are refreshingly simple + cross-platform. I am > > looking forward to trying out Chris' new IDE too. On APL symbols... I > > still only know a few of them. Intellisense to the dictionary would be > > more useful (ie. strengthen what is already working). More useful again > > would be Intellisense to J libraries. > > > > On the dictionary, since in J we're talking about notation as a tool of > > thought, and the vocabulary is small, isn't it better to commit this to > > memory? Probably I'm forgetting how foreign this J vocabulary once > looked > > to me. > > > > > > > > > > On 4 April 2013 22:06, Greg Borota <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > My work would be usable only by those who can run Visual Studio > binaries, > > > either the paid ones (preferably and easier) or the free Visual Studio > > > Shell. > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Raul Miller <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > What Greg was describing would be optional (and out of scope for many > > > > users). > > > > > > > > FYI, > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Raul > > > > > > > > On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Peter B. Kessler > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > I hope you can make this kind of change uniform, so that if I were > > > > debugging > > > > > or tracing, etc., I saw my program in the same character set that I > > > used > > > > to > > > > > write my program. Otherwise I can't use the powerful parallel > > > processor > > > > > that is my vision system to match things up. > > > > > > > > > > ... peter > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 04/04/13 12:44, Greg Borota wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> What I have in mind is just a display thing. Say you Select All > and > > > > >> Copy/Paste the content of the editor window, you still get ASCII > > chars > > > > >> only. > > > > >> > > > > >> E.g: In GTK Term whenever you enter y as the verb argument it > > changes > > > > >> color > > > > >> and becomes italic (at least under Windows). What if you were to > > > display > > > > >> the omega character instead? But behind the scenes you still hold > y > > > > ASCII > > > > >> char indeed. Maybe those who already worked on GTK editor could > add > > > > their > > > > >> feedback. > > > > >> > > > > >> And this could be an optional setting which one could turn on and > > off > > > as > > > > >> wanted. Just a display setting. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 2:38 PM, Devon McCormick < > [email protected] > > > > > > > >> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >>> I'm not sure this is really such a good idea. J is its own > > language > > > > and > > > > >>> mapping some J symbols to APL ones could be misleading. Also, as > > > much > > > > as > > > > >>> I > > > > >>> like the look of APL, I'm happy not to deal with the continuing > > > hiccups > > > > >>> caused by the character set. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> At last year's APL Moot, I showed my fellow mooters that I could > > cut > > > > and > > > > >>> paste Chinese characters into an emacs session with no apparent > > > problem > > > > >>> but > > > > >>> some of the APL characters from a website did not come over > > cleanly. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 1:57 PM, Greg Borota <[email protected]> > > > wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>>> I think it might be a quicker path to use ASCII behind the > scenes > > > > still > > > > >>> > > > > >>> but > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> have some editor/term software (Visual Studio in this case) > > display > > > > >>>> words > > > > >>>> of interest as APL symbols. Like in MS Word where you type (c) > and > > > > it's > > > > >>>> automatically displayed as Copyright Symbol ©. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> This could even be an Options settings where one could turn it > on > > > and > > > > >>> > > > > >>> off. > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I think this is doable with reasonable effort with Visual > Studio, > > > but > > > > I > > > > >>> > > > > >>> am > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> thinking the idea could be used with Qt or GKT also. Unless I am > > > > missing > > > > >>>> something which I might see only after starting the actual > > > > >>>> implementation > > > > >>>> :-) > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> I am very new to APL land, but I really liked the APL symbols. > > When > > > I > > > > >>> > > > > >>> first > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> started with computers I was puzzled why math symbols were not > > used > > > > by C > > > > >>> > > > > >>> (C > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> was my first higher level language after Assembly)... > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 12:41 PM, PMA < > [email protected] > > > > > > > >>> > > > > >>> wrote: > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>>> What a wonderful idea! I wish I had > > > > >>>>> the competence & time to pursue it. > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> Pete > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> J. Patrick Harrington wrote: > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>>> ... My dream would be to have J expressible in APL-like > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> characters (there isn't a one-to-one correspondance, though > most > > > > >>> > > > > >>> symbols > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>>> could be carried over). Then J could have two > > > > >>>>>> forms, like hieroglyphic and demotic Egyptian: ASCII J for use > > > > >>>>>> in emails & everywhere, and APL-like J for use on your main > > > > >>>>>> machine: more compact and beautiful to look at. I really hope > > > > >>>>>> that such a project gets under way. > > > > >>>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**---------- > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> For information about J forums see > > > > >>> > > > > >>> http://www.jsoftware.com/**forums.htm > > > > >>>> > > > > >>>> <http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>>> For information about J forums see > > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > >>>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> > > > > >>> -- > > > > >>> Devon McCormick, CFA > > > > >>> ^me^ at acm. > > > > >>> org is my > > > > >>> preferred e-mail > > > > >>> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >>> For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > >>> > > > > >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > >> For information about J forums see > > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > >> > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > For information about J forums see > > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > For information about J forums see > http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For information about J forums see http://www.jsoftware.com/forums.htm
