--- In [email protected], item abu <itemabu@...> wrote: > > Jadi nurut lu ga bejad ngembat anak 9 thn. > > > Dgn begitu, lu jg gpp ngembat anak 9 thn krn nabi lu itu hrs lu jadikan suri > tauladan, bukan? > >
jadi, ngikutin cara berpikirnya elu yang mikirnya pake kontol, karena di alkitab halal ngembat ibu sendiri, halal memperkosa adik sendiri, dengan begitu udah pasti elu ngembat ibu sendiri, dan memperkosa adik lu sendiri? gitu...?? > > > > >________________________________ > > From: Abbas <abas_amin08@...> > >To: [email protected] > >Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:31 PM > >Subject: [proletar] Re: Our Mother A'isha's Age At The Time Of Her Marriage > >to The Prophet > > > > > > > >Tidak usah ditutupin. Itu bukan perbuatan bejat! Saksinya bapaknya Abubakar, > >dan seluruh orang Islam ! > >Kalau seluruh komunitas menyatakan itu sah ! Tiada kebejatan. Hanya saja > >kaaum anti Islam urusannya digede gedein. Karena tak ada lain selain > >sasarannya ingin MENGHUJAT islam. Merubah pandaangan MUSLIM !??? > >Hahahaha manusia anti islam semuanya rata2 GOUBLOKKK !!! Nyaris IDIOT dan > >Debil semua. Mana mampu merubah pandangan ? > >Mereka pun semuanya TUKANG CATUT ! mencatut nama ILMUWAN dan disalurkan > >menjadi anti Islam. > >Padahal para Ilmuwan Netral semua. > >Anti Islam; walau bagaimanapun akan tetap menyebut islam suaaaaangaaaat > >jelek ! > >Jadi yaa gak aneh gak heran lah kalau kerjaan mereka sehari hari disini > >hanya buang2 tempo tiada arti; hanya untuk memaki maki Islam ! > >kasiaaaan memang. Otak dan pikirannya telah dipenuhi dendam kesumat !!!! > >Memang seharusnya kita kasiaaan kepada mereka anti islam. > > > >--- In [email protected], item abu <itemabu@> wrote: > >> > >> Hehehe... orang Islam mau nutupin perbuatan nabinya ngembat anak ingusan 9 > >> thn dgn ngibul. Jadi mereka mau nutupin kebejadan dgn kebejadan lain. > >> � > >> http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=7&ID=4604&CATE=1 > >> � > >> Question ID:4604 > >> Date Published: July 03, 2005 > >> Our Mother A'isha's Age At The Time Of Her Marriage to The Prophet > >> Answered by Shaykh Gibril F Haddad > >> � > >> Question: > >> To begin with, I think it is the responsibility of all those who believe > >> that marrying a girl as young as nine years old was an accepted norm of > >> the Arab culture, to provide at least a few examples to substantiate > >> their point of view. I have not yet been able to find a single dependable > >> instance in the books of Arab history where a girl as young as nine years > >> old was given away in marriage. Unless such examples are given, we do not > >> have any reasonable grounds to believe that it really was an accepted > >> norm. > >> � > >> Answer: > >> � > >> In the name of Allah, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful, > >> � > >> - Abu Tughlub ibn Hamdan married the daughter of `Izz al-Dawla Bakhtyar > >> when > >> she was three and paid a dowry of 100,000 dinars. This took place in Safar > >> 360 > >> H. (Ibn al-Athir, al-Kamil). > >> � > >> - Al-Shafi`i in al-Umm reported that he saw countless examples of > >> nine-year > >> old pubescent girls in Yemen. Al-Bayhaqi also narrates it from him in the > >> Sunan > >> al-Kubra as does al-Dhahabi in the Siyar. > >> � > >> - Al-Bayhaqi narrated with his chains in his Sunan al-Kubra no less than > >> three examples of Muslim wives that gave birth at age nine or ten. > >> � > >> - Hisham ibn `Urwa himself (whom the objector claims to know enough to > >> forward the most barefaced judgments on his reliability) married Fatima > >> bint > >> al-Mundhir when she was nine years old (al-Muntazam and Tarikh Baghdad). > >> � > >> - Our liege-lord `Umar married Umm Kulthum the daughter of `Ali and Fatima > >> at > >> a similar age per `Abd al-Razzaq, Ibn `Abd al-Barr and others. > >> � > >> - And our Mother `Aisha herself was first almost betrothed to Jubayr ibn > >> Mut`im before her father dropped that option when he received word from > >> the > >> Messenger of Allah, Allah bless and greet him and be well-pleased with > >> them. > >> � > >> In my opinion, the age of Ayesha (ra) has been grossly > >> mis-reported in the ahadith. Not only that, I think that the narratives > >> reporting this event are not only highly unreliable, but also that on the > >> basis > >> of other historical data, the event reported, is quite an unlikely > >> happening. > >> Let us look at the issue from an objective stand point. My reservations in > >> accepting the narratives, on the basis of which, Ayesha's (ra) age at the > >> time > >> of her marriage with the Prophet (pbuh) is held to be nine years are: Most > >> of > >> these narratives are reported only by Hisham ibn `Urwah, reporting on the > >> authority of his father. An event as well known as the one being reported, > >> should logically have been reported by more people than just one, two or > >> three. > >> � > >> Try more than eleven authorities among the Tabi`in that reported it > >> directly > >> from `A'isha, not counting the other major Companions that reported the > >> same, > >> nor other major Successors that reported it from other than `A'isha. > >> � > >> It is quite strange that no one from Medinah, where > >> Hisham ibn `Urwah lived the first seventy one years of his life has > >> narrated the > >> event, even though in Medinah his pupils included people as well known as > >> Malik > >> ibn Anas. > >> � > >> Not so. Al-Zuhri also reports it from `Urwa, from `A'isha; so does `Abd > >> Allah > >> ibn Dhakwan, both major Madanis. So is the Tabi`i Yahya al-Lakhmi who > >> reports it > >> from her in the Musnad and in Ibn Sa`d's Tabaqat. So is Abu Ishaq Sa`d ibn > >> Ibrahim who reports it from Imam al-Qasim ibn Muhammad, one of the Seven > >> Imams > >> of Madina, from `A'isha. All the narratives of this event have been > >> reported > >> � > >> Nor by narrators from Iraq, where Hisham is reported > >> to have had shifted after living in Medinah for seventy one years. > >> � > >> Not so. In addition to the above four Madinese Tabi`in narrators, Sufyan > >> ibn > >> `Uyayna from Khurasan and `Abd Allah ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya from Tabarayya > >> in > >> Palestine both report it. > >> � > >> Nor was this hadith reported only by `Urwa but also by `Abd al-Malik ibn > >> `Umayr, al-Aswad, Ibn Abi Mulayka, Abu Salama ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn `Awf, > >> Yahya > >> ibn `Abd al-Rahman ibn Hatib, Abu `Ubayda (`Amir ibn `Abd Allah ibn > >> Mas`ud) and > >> others of the Tabi`i Imams directly from `A'isha. > >> � > >> This makes the report mass-transmitted (mutawatir) from `A'isha by over > >> eleven authorities among the Tabi`in, not counting the other major > >> Companions > >> that reported the same, such as Ibn Mas`ud nor other major Successors that > >> reported it from other than `A'isha, such as Qatada! > >> � > >> Tehzibu'l-tehzib, one of the most well known books on > >> the life and reliability of the narrators of the traditions of the Prophet > >> (pbuh), reports that according to Yaqub ibn Shaibah: "narratives reported > >> by > >> Hisham are reliable except those that are reported through the people of > >> Iraq". > >> It further states that Malik ibn Anas objected on those narratives of > >> Hisham > >> which were reported through people of Iraq. (vol11, pg 48 - 51) > >> � > >> Rather, Ya`qub said: "Trustworthy, thoroughly reliable (thiqa thabt), > >> above > >> reproach except after he went to Iraq, at which time he narrated overly > >> from his > >> father and was criticized for it." Notice that Ya`qub does not exactly > >> endorse > >> that criticism. > >> � > >> As for Malik, he reports over 100 hadiths from Hisham as is evident in the > >> two Sahihs and Sunan! to the point that al-Dhahabi questions the > >> authenticity of > >> his alleged criticism of Hisham. > >> � > >> Indeed, none among the hadith Masters endorsed these reservations since > >> they > >> were based solely on the fact that Hisham in his last period (he was 71 at > >> the > >> time of his last trip to Iraq), for the sake of brevity, would say, "My > >> father, > >> from `A'isha? (abi `an `A'isha)" and no longer pronounced, "narrated to me > >> (haddathani)". > >> � > >> Al-Mizzi in Tahdhib al-Kamal (30:238) explained that it became a foregone > >> conclusion for the Iraqis that Hisham did not narrate anything > >> from his father except what he had heard directly from him. > >> � > >> Ibn Hajar also dismisses the objections against Hisham ibn `Urwa as > >> negligible in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (11:45), saying: "It was clear enough to > >> the > >> Iraqis that he did not narrate from his father other than what he had > >> heard > >> directly from him". > >> � > >> In fact, to say that "narratives reported by Hisham ibn `Urwa are reliable > >> except those that are reported through the people of Iraq" is major > >> nonsense as > >> that would eliminate all narrations of Ayyub al-Sakhtyani from him since > >> Ayyub > >> was a Basran Iraqi, and those of Abu `Umar al-Nakha`i who was from Kufa, > >> and > >> those of Hammad ibn Abi Sulayman from Kufa (the Shaykh of Abu Hanifa), and > >> those > >> of Hammad ibn Salama and Hammad ibn Zayd both from Basra, and those of > >> Sufyan > >> al-Thawri from Basra, and those of Shu`ba in Basra, all of whom narrated > >> from > >> Hisham! > >> � > >> Mizanu'l-ai`tidal, another book on the narrators of > >> the traditions of the Prophet (pbuh) reports that when he was old, > >> Hisham's > >> memory suffered quite badly. (vol 4, pg 301 - 302) > >> � > >> An outright lie, on the contrary, al-Dhahabi in Mizan al-I`tidal (4:301 > >> #9233) states: "Hisham ibn `Urwa, one of the eminent personalities. A > >> Proof in > >> himself, and an Imam. However, in his old age his memory diminished, but > >> he > >> certainly never became confused. Nor should any attention be paid to what > >> Abu > >> al-Hasan ibn al-Qattan said about him and Suhayl ibn Abi Salih becoming > >> confused > >> or changing! Yes, the man changed a little bit and his memory was not the > >> same > >> as it had been in his younger days, so that he forgot some of what he had > >> memorized or lapsed, so what? Is he immune to forgetfulness? [p. 302] And > >> when > >> he came to Iraq in the last part of his life he narrated a great amount of > >> knowledge, in the course of which are a few narrations in which he did not > >> excel, and such as occurs also to Malik, and Shu`ba, and Waki`, and the > >> major > >> trustworthy masters. So spare yourself confusion and floundering, do not > >> make > >> mix the firmly-established Imams with the weak and muddled narrators. > >> Hisham is > >> a Shaykh al-Islam. But may Allah console us well of you, O Ibn al-Qattan, > >> and > >> the same with regard to `Abd al-Rahman ibn Khirash's statement from > >> Malik!" > >> � > >> According to the generally accepted tradition, Ayesha > >> (ra) was born about eight years before Hijra. But according to another > >> narrative > >> in Bukhari (kitabu'l-tafseer) Ayesha (ra) is reported to have said that at > >> the > >> time Surah Al-Qamar, the 54th chapter of the Qur'an, was revealed, "I was > >> a > >> young girl". The 54th surah of the Qur'an was revealed nine years before > >> Hijra. > >> � > >> Not true. The hadith Masters, Sira historians, and Qur'anic commentators > >> agree that the splitting of the moon took place about five years before > >> the Holy > >> Prophet's (upon him blessings and peace) Hijra to Madina. > >> � > >> Thus it is confirmed that our Mother `Aisha was born between seven and > >> eight > >> years before the Hijra and the words that she was a jariya or little girl > >> five > >> years before the Hijra match the fact that her age at the time Surat > >> al-Qamar > >> was revealed was around 2 or 3. > >> � > >> According to this tradition, Ayesha (ra) had not only > >> been born before the revelation of the referred surah, but was actually a > >> young > >> girl (jariyah), not an infant (sibyah) at that time. Obviously, if this > >> narrative is held to be true, it is in clear contradiction with the > >> narratives > >> reported by Hisham ibn `Urwah. I see absolutely no reason that after the > >> comments of the experts on the narratives of Hisham ibn `Urwah, why we > >> should > >> not accept this narrative to be more accurate. > >> � > >> A two year old is not an infant. A two year old is able to run around, > >> which > >> is what jariya means. As for "the comments of the experts" they concur on > >> 6 or 7 > >> as the age of marriage and 9 as the age of cohabitation. > >> � > >> According to a number of narratives, Ayesha (ra) > >> accompanied the Muslims in the battle of Badr and Uhud. Furthermore, it is > >> also > >> reported in books of hadith and history that no one under the age of 15 > >> years > >> was allowed to take part in the battle of Uhud. All the boys below 15 > >> years of > >> age were sent back. Ayesha's (ra) participation in the battle of Badr and > >> Uhud > >> clearly indicate that she was not nine or ten years old at that time. > >> After all, > >> women used to accompany men to the battle fields to help them, not to be a > >> burden on them. > >> � > >> First, the prohibition applied to combatants. It applied neither to > >> non-combatant boys nor to non-combatant girls and women. Second, `A'isha > >> did not > >> participate in Badr at all but bade farewell to the combatants as they > >> were > >> leaving Madina, as narrated by Muslim in his Sahih. On the day of Uhud > >> (year 3), > >> Anas, at the time only twelve or thirteen years old, reports seeing an > >> eleven-year old `A'isha and his mother Umm Sulaym having tied up their > >> dresses > >> and carrying water skins back and forth to the combatants, as narrated by > >> al-Bukhari and Muslim. > >> � > >> According to almost all the historians, Asma, the > >> elder sister of Ayesha was ten years older than Ayesha. > >> � > >> Well, Ibn Kathir based himself on Ibn Abi al-Zinad's assertion that she > >> was > >> ten years older than `A'isha, however, al-Dhahabi in Siyar A`lam > >> al-Nubala' said > >> there was a greater difference than 10 years between the two, up to 19, > >> and he > >> is more reliable here. > >> � > >> It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as > >> Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years > >> old. > >> Now, obviously if Asma was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been > >> 27 or > >> 28 years old at the time of hijrah. If Asma was 27 or 28 years old at the > >> time > >> of hijrah, Ayesha should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time. Thus, > >> Ayesha, if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 > >> to 20 > >> years old at the time of her marriage. > >> � > >> Ibn Hajar reports in al-Isaba from Hisham ibn `Urwa, from his father, that > >> Asma' did live 100 years, and from Abu Nu`aym al-Asbahani that "Asma' bint > >> Abi > >> Bakr was born 27 years before the Hijra, and she lived until the beginning > >> of > >> the year 74." None of this amounts to any proof for `A'isha's age > >> whatsoever. > >> � > >> Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while > >> mentioning Abu Bakr, reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four > >> were > >> born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period. Obviously, if Ayesha > >> was > >> born in the period of Jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 > >> years in > >> 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married. > >> � > >> Al-Tabari nowhere reports that "Abu Bakr's four children were all born in > >> Jahiliyya" but only that Abu Bakr married both their mothers in Jahiliyya, > >> Qutayla bint Sa`d and Umm Ruman, who bore him four children in all, two > >> each, > >> `A'isha being the daughter of Umm Ruman. > >> � > >> According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha > >> accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab. > >> � > >> Nowhere does Ibn Hisham say this. > >> � > >> This shows that Ayesha accepted Islam during the first > >> year of Islam. While, if the narrative of Ayesha's marriage at seven years > >> of > >> age is held to be true, Ayesha should not have been born during the first > >> year > >> of Islam. > >> � > >> Rather, Ibn Hisham lists `A'isha among "those that accepted Islam because > >> of > >> Abu Bakr." This does not mean that she embraced Islam during the first > >> year of > >> Islam. Nor does it mean that she necessarily embraced Islam before `Umar > >> (year > >> 6) although she was born the previous year (year 7 before the Hijra) > >> although it > >> is understood she will automatically follow her father's choice even > >> before the > >> age of reason. > >> � > >> Tabari has also reported that at the time Abu Bakr > >> planned on migrating to Habshah (8 years before Hijrah), he went to Mut`am > >> -- > >> with whose son Ayesha was engaged -- and asked him to take Ayesha in his > >> house > >> as his son's wife. Mut`am refused, because Abu Bakr had embraced Islam, > >> and > >> subsequently his son divorced Ayesha (ra). > >> � > >> Not at all, there is no mention of emigration in Tabari's account of Abu > >> Bakr's discussion with Mut`im. Nor did he ever ask him to take `A'isha > >> because > >> there had been only some preliminary talk, not a formal arrangement. Umm > >> Ruman, > >> Abu Bakr's wife, reportedly said: "By Allah, no promise had been given on > >> our > >> part at all!" Rather, al-Tabari said that when news of the Prophet's > >> interest in > >> `A'isha came, he went to see Mut`im. Then Mut`im's wife manifested her > >> fear that > >> her son would become Muslim if he married into Abu Bakr's family. Abu Bakr > >> then > >> left them and gave his assent to the Prophet, upon him blessings and > >> peace. > >> � > >> Now, if Ayesha was only seven years old at the time of > >> her marriage, she could not have been born at the time Abu Bakr decided on > >> migrating to Habshah. On the basis of this report it seems only reasonable > >> to > >> assume that Ayesha had not only been born 8 years before hijrah, but was > >> also a > >> young lady, quite prepared for marriage. > >> � > >> Your assumption fizzles at the root when you read al-Tabari's positive > >> assertion: "On the day he consummated the marriage with her, she was nine > >> years > >> old." > >> � > >> According to a narrative reported by Ahmad ibn Hanbal, > >> after the death of Khadijah, when Khaulah came to the Prophet advising him > >> to > >> marry again, the Prophet asked her regarding the choices she had in her > >> mind. > >> Khaulah said: "You can marry a virgin (bikr) or a woman who has already > >> been > >> married (thayyib)". When the Prophet asked about who the virgin was, > >> Khaulah > >> proposed Ayesha's name. All those who know the Arabic language, are aware > >> that > >> the word "bikr" in the Arabic language is not used for an immature nine > >> year old > >> girl. The correct word for a young playful girl, as stated earlier is > >> "Jariyah". > >> "Bikr" on the other hand, is used for an unmarried lady, and obviously a > >> nine > >> year old is not a "lady". > >> � > >> This is ignorant nonsense, bikr means a virgin girl, a girl who has never > >> been married even if her age is 0 and there is no unclarity here > >> whatsoever. > >> � > >> According to Ibn Hajar, Fatimah was five years older > >> than Ayesha. Fatimah is reported to have been born when the Prophet was 35 > >> years > >> old. Thus, even if this information is taken to be correct, Ayesha could > >> by no > >> means be less than 14 years old at the time of hijrah, and 15 or 16 years > >> old at > >> the time of her marriage. > >> � > >> Rather, Ibn Hajar mentions two versions: (1) al-Waqidi's narration that > >> Fatima was born when the Prophet was 35; and (2) Ibn `Abd al-Barr's > >> narration > >> that she was born when he was 41, approximately one year more or less > >> before > >> Prophethood, and about five years before `A'isha was born. The latter > >> version > >> matches the established dates. > >> � > >> So our Mother `A'isha was nineteen to twenty years younger than her sister > >> Asma' (b. 27 before Hijra-d. 74) and about five years to eight years > >> Fatima's > >> junior. > >> � > >> These are some of the major points that go against > >> accepting the commonly known narrative regarding Ayesha's (ra) age at the > >> time > >> of her marriage. In my opinion, neither was it an Arab tradition to give > >> away > >> girls in marriage at an age as young as nine or ten years, nor did the > >> Prophet > >> marry Ayesha at such a young age. The people of Arabia did not object to > >> this > >> marriage, because it never happened in the manner it has been narrated. > >> � > >> Those that itch to follow misguidance always resort to solipsisms because > >> they are invariably thin on sources. In this particular case "the Learner" > >> proves to be ignorant and dishonest. It is no surprise he moves on every > >> single > >> point, without exception, from incorrect premises to false conclusions. > >> � > >> Hajj Gibril > >> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > ------------------------------------ Post message: [email protected] Subscribe : [email protected] Unsubscribe : [email protected] List owner : [email protected] Homepage : http://proletar.8m.com/Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/proletar/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
