I'm saying this lightheartedly, but there is truth to it: There is also 'new user' support costs with hardware. Look at any VCR and try to tell me people understand how to program them. If I sell a used VCR to someone on ebay (without a manual) the first they they could do is potentially call the company and start asking questions how to use it. And THAT is a product that has zero margin for support.
The EDA industry is a joke at times with the policies in place. The Protel policies that have been in place are a welcome relief to the (realistically) infrequent occurance of 'used' license sales. > -----Original Message----- > From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 2:36 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fw: 2 of 2 [protel-users-resale] Protel > 99se for sale? > > > At 03:52 PM 11/19/2002, Brad Velander wrote: > >Abd ul-Rahman, > > your comments are quite valid. However Altium is already > >refusing the transfer of licenses on Accel products. I know this > >because I tried to obtain permission to sell 3 Accel > licenses recently. > >How long do you think that separate policies will be maintained? > >Therefore, caveat emptor! > > The Accel PCAD license has, as long as I know about it, > always prohibited > transfer, I'm not sure about prior products like Tango DOS. Altium is > simply continuing that policy, as bad as it is. > > I was told that Accel product licenses *could* be sold. There > might be the > requirement that the underlying business be sold. Rather > obviously, if a > company is sold, the buyer doesn't have to buy new CAD > licenses! Now, try > to define "underlying business" in a way that is not full of > loopholes.... > Can a corporation or sole proprietorship sell a division, > such as the My > Home Design Service PCAD Design Division? If a CAD company tries to > unreasonably restrict a bona fide transfer, it could end up > at the losing > end of a lawsuit, and the publicity cost would be worse. > > Protel always had a transferable license; conditions were > added because of > some abuses or situations considered undesirable, but none of > that would > justify a blanket prohibition of resale. Protel was somewhat > unusual, most > other CAD companies explicitly prohibit resale. But all of them still > permit it if the business is transferred. > > Imagine the screams if a hardware vendor tried to prohibit > resale. It has > been argued that software is different, because there is a > new-user support > cost. Well, if there is a new-user support cost, it could be > made explicit > that a transferred license gets no special support. But it is a phony > argument. If a company owns a license and a new employee > starts to use it, > that is a new user, who may very well need just as much > support as any new > buyer. Better to find inexpensive ways to provide support, such as > referring users to the user group mailing list. Further, > hardware can also > involve new user support costs. Typically there is a warranty > period, but > most mfrs still provide support beyond the warranty period. > Sometimes there > is a fee for it. > > Microsoft products are generally transferable, at least they > used to be. > Yes, there are conditions, but a license that was not > transferable would > mean that one would have to relicense a computer that was > sold with its > operating system.... Pretty crazy, not to mention > unenforceable. (Even the > XP system, which makes it hard for users to move the system to a new > computer, does not squawk at a sale of the computer, since it > doesn't know > about it.) > > Protel has a defacto maintenance fee in excess of $1K per > year. Surely that > is sufficient to cover alleged "new user" expenses! > > It would not be unreasonable for Altium to charge a transfer > fee sufficient > to recover their costs. > > I've known for a long time of sentiment within Altium against > continuing to > allow resale. It's a bad sign if that faction is getting the > upper hand. > > Prohibiting resale is quite clearly contrary to user > interests. Companies > should avoid such policies like the plague. I'm quite > certain: if it is bad > for customers, it is ultimately bad for the company. > > I have elsewhere spent, or perhaps wasted, countless > electrons arguing that > license resales greatly benefit the CAD company, and even if > they did not, > the damage that they might do is miniscule, easily > counterbalanced by the > good will. > > One of the aspects of the situation that has led Altium, I > think, to begin > to weigh against allowing resale is that Altium decided to > eliminate the > VARs in most markets. But resale by a VAR is quite different > from resale by > a user. In the latter case, the user is merely recovering a > fraction of the > original investment, in the former, the VAR hopes to profit > from the sale. > A resale broker or buyer and seller of user licenses is much > more like an > agent of the user rather than a genuine reseller (i.e., retailer). > > If Altium actually promoted the resellability, if customer > knew that their > actual immediate expense on the license was, say, half of the > list price > instead of the full price (because they would now own > something with cash > resale value instead of incurring a pure expense with only > some speculative > use value), it might make purchase decisions easier. Now, > there might be > technical and legal difficulties with this, i.e., with Altium itself > advertising resellability, but I do know I have made major purchase > decisions, such as what new car to buy, based on expected > sale value. It > would not be a problem for an Altium salesperson to point a > prospect to, > say, the resale mailing list. If Altium actually did this, > the few licenses > that were available for resale would be snapped up > immediately, the price > would rise closer to full price, benefiting both users and > Altium. Only if > a large number of licenses came on the market, becoming a > major fraction of > the total licenses being sold, would Altium sales be actually > suffering; > this strikes me as quite unlikely. Resales are, as far as I > know -- and I > probably know better than anyone outside of Altium -- quite > rare. Maybe one > a month, if that. > > To say this again, if a prospective buyer went to a resale > web site and > found that he could resell his license tomorrow at 90% of what he is > thinking of paying for it, well .... if it were me, it would > make it much, > much easier to write the check or give my credit card number. > But he is > *not* going to sell the license unless he really doesn't need > it any more, > he will have way too much invested in training. > > And if he doesn't need it and he then finds he can't sell it, > he is likely > to be one unhappy camper. And unhappy campers tell their friends. I > remember one OrCAD user who had been conned into spending in > excess of $10K > for Capture and Layout licenses, and then realized what a > pain in the *** > it was to use. But he had waiting just a little too long to > return it. This > guy told every one he knew what a lousy piece of garbage that > program was; > had he been able to sell it and return a major portion of his > investment, > he would not have had nearly so much emotional weight on > continuing to > bad-mouth the program. It is one thing to dislike a program, > it is quite > another to dislike it and be either forced to use it or eat > the loss, both > of which are losses. If a CAD company had any sense, it would > bend over > backwards to satisfy its users, which includes letting > disgruntled users > go. "Money-back guarantee if you are ever dissatisfied" works > in a lot of > businesses. Why not with CAD? > > If you have sold someone a CAD program, and they have > invested three months > learning to use it, no way are they going to sell it back to > you for a > measley 100% of what they paid! -- unless they really don't > need any more, > perhaps it was a one-person service bureau and he or she was hired by > someone full-time and no longer needs the license..... > > > > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
