Hey Scott,

I'd personally love it if Avid would invest the resources to make Pro Tools 
100% accessible right now, both on the Mac and Windows, for that matter. The 
undeniable truth is that the blind user base is probably, if not definitely, a 
fraction of the total. Any future improvements will likely come when resources 
allow. Again, this is a long-term project and things will happen over the 
course of several releases.

Keep in mind that what we've gained is largely permanent. In other words, it 
doesn't involve relying on screen resolution, window position and scripts. In 
future releases, things won't be broken and scripts rewritten. There seems to 
be some comfort in the Sonar model of knowing that people are constantly 
working to ensure accessibility. Thing is, as you may know, that is a constant 
battle to fix things that get broken. Look at what happened to Sibelius. Yes, 
an open source project began and I don't know where it currently stands but I 
guarantee you that future releases of Sibelius will present a constant stream 
of challenges for scripting. Of course, I'm not even raising the complaints 
about JAWS.

We have here a simpler problem which is, in a way, a difficult one as well. It 
stems from Apple's decision to make developers deal with accessibility. That's 
an ideological stand with which  one may agree or disagree. On the upside is 
the knowledge that, once an application is made accessible (or, in some cases, 
is accessible out of the box), it's not likely to change or get broken. On the 
downside is the challenge to be heard when dealing with a corporation when 
something isn't accessible. As you probably know, many small developers are 
more than happy to make changes to their programs to make them more accessible 
but they can turn stuff around immediately because they're doing it in their 
spare time and don't have to budget for it, have a bunch of meetings, pay a 
team of programmers and answer to their shareholders, etc.

It's a decidedly different ballgame when it comes to major software and a giant 
user base. This is not ideal and, again, it would be nice to have everything 
happen right away with a huge announcement about VoiceOver compatibility but 
it's still essentially experimental at this point. It may or may not ever be a 
"feature," per se. As mentioned earlier, "feature" would imply complete support 
and that, my friend, is just unrealistic. Now, you may not expect that support 
and I certainly don't but, believe me, there will be those who would demand 
support on using Pro Tools with Voiceover simply by calling Avid's technical 
support. That, in my opinion, is an unreasonable expectation. I think most 
blind users would understand and that's exactly why a community like this was 
begun—to support each other in this largely uncharted territory.

Scott, believe me, I, more than anyone, want Pro Tools to be fully accessible. 
My career depends upon having a stable, useable recording system. That's why 
I've invested not only incalculable hours, days, weeks, months of my life but 
also thousands of dollars in flights, hotels, etc. to interface with Digidesign 
to help make this happen. While I knew that this would benefit me personally 
and professionally, I knew that it would benefit others. I wish it could've 
been flawless from day 1 but, to be honest, I'd rather have what we have now 
for the near future and be able to do most of what I need to do.

As far as viability, well, that's a relative term just like "accessible" means 
different things to different people. To me, what we have in version 8.0.4 is 
viable depending upon one's needs. Frankly, I have to say, I probably won't 
make a total migration from version 5 to version 8. I'm fortunate to have not 
only an HD system capable of operating both under OS 9 and OS X as well as 
versions 5 through 8, I also have a separate Digi 003 system to dedicate to 
anything specific to version 8 and higher. That said, given a little more time 
and perhaps a few improvements, I'd likely make a full transition fairly soon. 
For now, I hope to continue a relationship with the folks at Avid with whom 
I've tried to develop a friendly relationship. To get to this point, it took a 
lot of patience. there were times when I wondered whether we'd ever get 
results. Well, we've begun to see some major results and I think we need to 
continue to be patient as we move forward.

I know that much of what I'm saying, you already know and I'm pretty much 
stating certain things for the benefit of others. You may disagree with certain 
things I've said. I'm sure we're mostly in agreement and I'm quite confident 
that we ultimately want the same thing.

Slau


On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:

> The word "feature" and "accessibility" in the same sentence always
> makes me uneasy. No, I wouldn't expect Avid to have a VO guru on hand
> to figure out the most efficient workflow for me to get something
> done, just like I don't expect every support techie to have the
> knowledge to instantly switch off the "drag and drop" terminology in
> his script every time I call Apple, but if a task isn't achievable via
> the keyboard or isn't achievable with VO due to elements not being
> exposed or being incorrectly defined etc, surely it's not unreasonable
> to expect acknowledgement and response to that. In most cases it would
> after all, be an issue that could be fixed with no specialist
> knowledge of anything more than Apple's developer guidelines. I
> suppose what I'm getting at is this. VO support not being publicly
> stated (even the current partial VO support puts them ahead of the
> game compared to Apple themselves) makes me uneasy that we're not
> going to be publicly acknowledged as a userbase either. So, if that's
> the case, what happens about new features or interface tweaks from
> here on in? As I said, I totally agree that Avid implementing Apple's
> accessibility guidelines is the most that we could expect from them,
> and I am grateful for what's been implemented so far, but consistency
> is key to this being a viable product for VO users to be able to rely
> upon it professionally. I have to wonder whether implementing those
> guidelines and ensuring that new features aren't going to be totally
> beyond users of accessibility will be considered as part of the
> development cycle, or whether the best we can expect is playing catch
> up every few years.
> 
> I'm not intending to knock Avid. It's just this whole notion of
> accessibility as a feature really, really bugs me.
> 
> On 6/30/10, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I'm preparing an update for the web site at ProToolsPetition.org. For what
>> it's worth, I'll post it here first because it probably won't post to the
>> web site for another day or two.
>> 
>> Update Summer 2010
>> 
>> It seems that the fruits of many people's labor are finally beginning to
>> show. After years of interfacing with Digidesign, now known as Avid
>> Technologies, we're seeing the results of our efforts to gain access to Pro
>> Tools. Changes to the code base of Pro Tools that make it easier to navigate
>> the user interface with VoiceOver in OS X were implemented in version 8.0.4.
>> In early June, the HD version was released with the LE and M-Powered
>> versions to follow soon.
>> 
>> While there was a great amount of work done to help make Pro Tools useable
>> with VoiceOver, it is by no means a completed project but rather a work in
>> progress. While major aspects of the application are accessible, there
>> remains some areas that will need to be addressed in future versions. We
>> always knew that the issue of accessibility to Pro Tools would need a
>> long-term solution. We hope to see improvements to be rolled out over
>> several releases in the coming years.
>> 
>> Although Avid Technologies has made changes to Pro Tools to specifically
>> work better with VoiceOver, it has no plans to announce it as an official
>> feature, per se. Regarding it as a feature would imply thorough testing and
>> full customer support from the perspective of usability with VoiceOver.
>> Naturally, one wouldn't expect Avid to troubleshoot issues regarding
>> accessibility and the use of a screen reader. Essentially, what Avid has
>> done is they've begun to label UI elements according to Apple's programming
>> guidelines. The rest of the user experience has more to do with how
>> VoiceOver works and best practices as blind users of the operating system
>> and application software.
>> 
>> Again, since this project is still a work in progress, it's still somewhat
>> experimental as we discover what works and what doesn't. Although Pro Tools
>> is not yet 100% accessible in all of it's areas, I'm glad that the work done
>> thus far was included in the 8.0.4 release. It will allow blind users to
>> begin learning the Pro Tools environment and workflow with plenty of
>> features to explore and master. In the mean time, Avid is aware of the
>> PTAccess email list at GoogleGroups.com and will direct any inquiries from
>> blind users to the growing community of users in the group. Any issues of
>> accessibility can be discussed there and any bugs or feature requests will
>> be aggregated for future submission to Avid.
>> 
>> I'll continue to post any major updates here but for the latest information
>> go to
>> http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess
>> 
>> Slau Halatyn

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