When you do, we should make a new page on the GoogleGroup site with them listed. Can call it current issues, or similar. Besides a good summary for potential users to know what will present challenges, it would be a good way to keep Avid informed on what needs to be fixed. Only admins can edit pages, so people can post problems here, and one of the admins can update the page.
Bryan -----Original Message----- From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptacc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Slau Halatyn Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:45 AM To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Update Summer 2010 That's a good question, Chris. If I had to get specific, I suppose it would be the following: 1. The MIDI Event List would need to be accessible. While I'm not really a MIDI tweaker and most of the MIDI I record is real-time playing rather than pattern based stuff, I'd still like to have the full functionality of the event list. 2. Currently, the Rulers aren't yet accessible so, while it's possible to insert tempo and meter changes, it's not possible to get to them after creation to edit or delete them after the fact. This is a feature that is not so terribly important for some projects but, when you need it, as I often do, it's indispensable. 3. The I/O Setup window is only partially accessible which means that it's still not possible to edit I/O and buss path names. This isn't terribly important for some users but when you're dealing with dozens of paths in large sessions, it becomes increasingly more important to be able to name paths rather than rely on one's memory of which path is sending the conga to the gated reverb bus and dedicated headphone send to a given musician. I guess those are the things that come to mind. I should point out that these issues are not deal breakers in general but when I have paying clients, I can't fiddle around. There are a few more things that are still somewhat annoying but I can deal with. For example, the automation status pop-up menu, rather than displaying the status, says "Automation Mode pop-up" or something to that effect rather than displaying the current status of the track's automation. so one has to actually click on it to determine what the status is. Again, it's not a big deal but it is annoying. It was a similar case with the pop-up menus in the plug-ins window but luckily we managed to change that early on. I think as soon as LE is out, I'll post a list of known issues and possible workarounds for now. Best, Slau On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Christopher Wright wrote: > Hey Slau, > What would it take for you to make a complete switch to version 8? > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Slau Halatyn" > <slauhala...@gmail.com> > To: <ptaccess@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:07 AM > Subject: Re: Update Summer 2010 > > > Hey Scott, > > I'd personally love it if Avid would invest the resources to make Pro Tools > 100% accessible right now, both on the Mac and Windows, for that matter. The > undeniable truth is that the blind user base is probably, if not definitely, > a fraction of the total. Any future improvements will likely come when > resources allow. Again, this is a long-term project and things will happen > over the course of several releases. > > Keep in mind that what we've gained is largely permanent. In other words, it > doesn't involve relying on screen resolution, window position and scripts. In > future releases, things won't be broken and scripts rewritten. There seems to > be some comfort in the Sonar model of knowing that people are constantly > working to ensure accessibility. Thing is, as you may know, that is a > constant battle to fix things that get broken. Look at what happened to > Sibelius. Yes, an open source project began and I don't know where it > currently stands but I guarantee you that future releases of Sibelius will > present a constant stream of challenges for scripting. Of course, I'm not > even raising the complaints about JAWS. > > We have here a simpler problem which is, in a way, a difficult one as well. > It stems from Apple's decision to make developers deal with accessibility. > That's an ideological stand with which one may agree or disagree. On the > upside is the knowledge that, once an application is made accessible (or, in > some cases, is accessible out of the box), it's not likely to change or get > broken. On the downside is the challenge to be heard when dealing with a > corporation when something isn't accessible. As you probably know, many small > developers are more than happy to make changes to their programs to make them > more accessible but they can turn stuff around immediately because they're > doing it in their spare time and don't have to budget for it, have a bunch of > meetings, pay a team of programmers and answer to their shareholders, etc. > > It's a decidedly different ballgame when it comes to major software and a > giant user base. This is not ideal and, again, it would be nice to have > everything happen right away with a huge announcement about VoiceOver > compatibility but it's still essentially experimental at this point. It may > or may not ever be a "feature," per se. As mentioned earlier, "feature" would > imply complete support and that, my friend, is just unrealistic. Now, you may > not expect that support and I certainly don't but, believe me, there will be > those who would demand support on using Pro Tools with Voiceover simply by > calling Avid's technical support. That, in my opinion, is an unreasonable > expectation. I think most blind users would understand and that's exactly why > a community like this was begun-to support each other in this largely > uncharted territory. > > Scott, believe me, I, more than anyone, want Pro Tools to be fully > accessible. My career depends upon having a stable, useable recording system. > That's why I've invested not only incalculable hours, days, weeks, months of > my life but also thousands of dollars in flights, hotels, etc. to interface > with Digidesign to help make this happen. While I knew that this would > benefit me personally and professionally, I knew that it would benefit > others. I wish it could've been flawless from day 1 but, to be honest, I'd > rather have what we have now for the near future and be able to do most of > what I need to do. > > As far as viability, well, that's a relative term just like "accessible" > means different things to different people. To me, what we have in version > 8.0.4 is viable depending upon one's needs. Frankly, I have to say, I > probably won't make a total migration from version 5 to version 8. I'm > fortunate to have not only an HD system capable of operating both under OS 9 > and OS X as well as versions 5 through 8, I also have a separate Digi 003 > system to dedicate to anything specific to version 8 and higher. That said, > given a little more time and perhaps a few improvements, I'd likely make a > full transition fairly soon. For now, I hope to continue a relationship with > the folks at Avid with whom I've tried to develop a friendly relationship. To > get to this point, it took a lot of patience. there were times when I > wondered whether we'd ever get results. Well, we've begun to see some major > results and I think we need to continue to be patient as we move forward. > > I know that much of what I'm saying, you already know and I'm pretty much > stating certain things for the benefit of others. You may disagree with > certain things I've said. I'm sure we're mostly in agreement and I'm quite > confident that we ultimately want the same thing. > > Slau > > > On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote: > >> The word "feature" and "accessibility" in the same sentence always >> makes me uneasy. No, I wouldn't expect Avid to have a VO guru on hand >> to figure out the most efficient workflow for me to get something >> done, just like I don't expect every support techie to have the >> knowledge to instantly switch off the "drag and drop" terminology in >> his script every time I call Apple, but if a task isn't achievable >> via the keyboard or isn't achievable with VO due to elements not >> being exposed or being incorrectly defined etc, surely it's not >> unreasonable to expect acknowledgement and response to that. In most >> cases it would after all, be an issue that could be fixed with no >> specialist knowledge of anything more than Apple's developer >> guidelines. I suppose what I'm getting at is this. VO support not >> being publicly stated (even the current partial VO support puts them >> ahead of the game compared to Apple themselves) makes me uneasy that >> we're not going to be publicly acknowledged as a userbase either. So, >> if that's the case, what happens about new features or interface >> tweaks from here on in? As I said, I totally agree that Avid >> implementing Apple's accessibility guidelines is the most that we >> could expect from them, and I am grateful for what's been implemented >> so far, but consistency is key to this being a viable product for VO >> users to be able to rely upon it professionally. I have to wonder >> whether implementing those guidelines and ensuring that new features >> aren't going to be totally beyond users of accessibility will be >> considered as part of the development cycle, or whether the best we >> can expect is playing catch up every few years. >> >> I'm not intending to knock Avid. It's just this whole notion of >> accessibility as a feature really, really bugs me. >> >> On 6/30/10, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I'm preparing an update for the web site at ProToolsPetition.org. >>> For what it's worth, I'll post it here first because it probably >>> won't post to the web site for another day or two. >>> >>> Update Summer 2010 >>> >>> It seems that the fruits of many people's labor are finally >>> beginning to show. After years of interfacing with Digidesign, now >>> known as Avid Technologies, we're seeing the results of our efforts >>> to gain access to Pro Tools. Changes to the code base of Pro Tools >>> that make it easier to navigate the user interface with VoiceOver in OS X >>> were implemented in version 8.0.4. >>> In early June, the HD version was released with the LE and M-Powered >>> versions to follow soon. >>> >>> While there was a great amount of work done to help make Pro Tools >>> useable with VoiceOver, it is by no means a completed project but >>> rather a work in progress. While major aspects of the application >>> are accessible, there remains some areas that will need to be >>> addressed in future versions. We always knew that the issue of >>> accessibility to Pro Tools would need a long-term solution. We hope >>> to see improvements to be rolled out over several releases in the coming >>> years. >>> >>> Although Avid Technologies has made changes to Pro Tools to >>> specifically work better with VoiceOver, it has no plans to announce >>> it as an official feature, per se. Regarding it as a feature would >>> imply thorough testing and full customer support from the perspective of >>> usability with VoiceOver. >>> Naturally, one wouldn't expect Avid to troubleshoot issues regarding >>> accessibility and the use of a screen reader. Essentially, what Avid >>> has done is they've begun to label UI elements according to Apple's >>> programming guidelines. The rest of the user experience has more to >>> do with how VoiceOver works and best practices as blind users of the >>> operating system and application software. >>> >>> Again, since this project is still a work in progress, it's still >>> somewhat experimental as we discover what works and what doesn't. >>> Although Pro Tools is not yet 100% accessible in all of it's areas, >>> I'm glad that the work done thus far was included in the 8.0.4 >>> release. It will allow blind users to begin learning the Pro Tools >>> environment and workflow with plenty of features to explore and >>> master. In the mean time, Avid is aware of the PTAccess email list >>> at GoogleGroups.com and will direct any inquiries from blind users >>> to the growing community of users in the group. Any issues of >>> accessibility can be discussed there and any bugs or feature requests will >>> be aggregated for future submission to Avid. >>> >>> I'll continue to post any major updates here but for the latest >>> information go to http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess >>> >>> Slau Halatyn >
