Sure, a sort of FAQ in that sense wouldn't be a bad thing. I've been asked to aggregate the issues and present them when I go to AES in October.
Slau On Jun 30, 2010, at 10:30 AM, Bryan Smart wrote: > When you do, we should make a new page on the GoogleGroup site with them > listed. Can call it current issues, or similar. Besides a good summary for > potential users to know what will present challenges, it would be a good way > to keep Avid informed on what needs to be fixed. Only admins can edit pages, > so people can post problems here, and one of the admins can update the page. > > Bryan > > -----Original Message----- > From: ptaccess@googlegroups.com [mailto:ptacc...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Slau Halatyn > Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:45 AM > To: ptaccess@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: Update Summer 2010 > > That's a good question, Chris. If I had to get specific, I suppose it would > be the following: > > 1. The MIDI Event List would need to be accessible. While I'm not really a > MIDI tweaker and most of the MIDI I record is real-time playing rather than > pattern based stuff, I'd still like to have the full functionality of the > event list. > > 2. Currently, the Rulers aren't yet accessible so, while it's possible to > insert tempo and meter changes, it's not possible to get to them after > creation to edit or delete them after the fact. This is a feature that is not > so terribly important for some projects but, when you need it, as I often do, > it's indispensable. > > 3. The I/O Setup window is only partially accessible which means that it's > still not possible to edit I/O and buss path names. This isn't terribly > important for some users but when you're dealing with dozens of paths in > large sessions, it becomes increasingly more important to be able to name > paths rather than rely on one's memory of which path is sending the conga to > the gated reverb bus and dedicated headphone send to a given musician. > > I guess those are the things that come to mind. I should point out that these > issues are not deal breakers in general but when I have paying clients, I > can't fiddle around. > > There are a few more things that are still somewhat annoying but I can deal > with. For example, the automation status pop-up menu, rather than displaying > the status, says "Automation Mode pop-up" or something to that effect rather > than displaying the current status of the track's automation. so one has to > actually click on it to determine what the status is. Again, it's not a big > deal but it is annoying. It was a similar case with the pop-up menus in the > plug-ins window but luckily we managed to change that early on. > > I think as soon as LE is out, I'll post a list of known issues and possible > workarounds for now. > > Best, > > Slau > > On Jun 30, 2010, at 9:15 AM, Christopher Wright wrote: > >> Hey Slau, >> What would it take for you to make a complete switch to version 8? >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Slau Halatyn" >> <slauhala...@gmail.com> >> To: <ptaccess@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:07 AM >> Subject: Re: Update Summer 2010 >> >> >> Hey Scott, >> >> I'd personally love it if Avid would invest the resources to make Pro Tools >> 100% accessible right now, both on the Mac and Windows, for that matter. The >> undeniable truth is that the blind user base is probably, if not definitely, >> a fraction of the total. Any future improvements will likely come when >> resources allow. Again, this is a long-term project and things will happen >> over the course of several releases. >> >> Keep in mind that what we've gained is largely permanent. In other words, it >> doesn't involve relying on screen resolution, window position and scripts. >> In future releases, things won't be broken and scripts rewritten. There >> seems to be some comfort in the Sonar model of knowing that people are >> constantly working to ensure accessibility. Thing is, as you may know, that >> is a constant battle to fix things that get broken. Look at what happened to >> Sibelius. Yes, an open source project began and I don't know where it >> currently stands but I guarantee you that future releases of Sibelius will >> present a constant stream of challenges for scripting. Of course, I'm not >> even raising the complaints about JAWS. >> >> We have here a simpler problem which is, in a way, a difficult one as well. >> It stems from Apple's decision to make developers deal with accessibility. >> That's an ideological stand with which one may agree or disagree. On the >> upside is the knowledge that, once an application is made accessible (or, in >> some cases, is accessible out of the box), it's not likely to change or get >> broken. On the downside is the challenge to be heard when dealing with a >> corporation when something isn't accessible. As you probably know, many >> small developers are more than happy to make changes to their programs to >> make them more accessible but they can turn stuff around immediately because >> they're doing it in their spare time and don't have to budget for it, have a >> bunch of meetings, pay a team of programmers and answer to their >> shareholders, etc. >> >> It's a decidedly different ballgame when it comes to major software and a >> giant user base. This is not ideal and, again, it would be nice to have >> everything happen right away with a huge announcement about VoiceOver >> compatibility but it's still essentially experimental at this point. It may >> or may not ever be a "feature," per se. As mentioned earlier, "feature" >> would imply complete support and that, my friend, is just unrealistic. Now, >> you may not expect that support and I certainly don't but, believe me, there >> will be those who would demand support on using Pro Tools with Voiceover >> simply by calling Avid's technical support. That, in my opinion, is an >> unreasonable expectation. I think most blind users would understand and >> that's exactly why a community like this was begun-to support each other in >> this largely uncharted territory. >> >> Scott, believe me, I, more than anyone, want Pro Tools to be fully >> accessible. My career depends upon having a stable, useable recording >> system. That's why I've invested not only incalculable hours, days, weeks, >> months of my life but also thousands of dollars in flights, hotels, etc. to >> interface with Digidesign to help make this happen. While I knew that this >> would benefit me personally and professionally, I knew that it would benefit >> others. I wish it could've been flawless from day 1 but, to be honest, I'd >> rather have what we have now for the near future and be able to do most of >> what I need to do. >> >> As far as viability, well, that's a relative term just like "accessible" >> means different things to different people. To me, what we have in version >> 8.0.4 is viable depending upon one's needs. Frankly, I have to say, I >> probably won't make a total migration from version 5 to version 8. I'm >> fortunate to have not only an HD system capable of operating both under OS 9 >> and OS X as well as versions 5 through 8, I also have a separate Digi 003 >> system to dedicate to anything specific to version 8 and higher. That said, >> given a little more time and perhaps a few improvements, I'd likely make a >> full transition fairly soon. For now, I hope to continue a relationship with >> the folks at Avid with whom I've tried to develop a friendly relationship. >> To get to this point, it took a lot of patience. there were times when I >> wondered whether we'd ever get results. Well, we've begun to see some major >> results and I think we need to continue to be patient as we move forward. >> >> I know that much of what I'm saying, you already know and I'm pretty much >> stating certain things for the benefit of others. You may disagree with >> certain things I've said. I'm sure we're mostly in agreement and I'm quite >> confident that we ultimately want the same thing. >> >> Slau >> >> >> On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote: >> >>> The word "feature" and "accessibility" in the same sentence always >>> makes me uneasy. No, I wouldn't expect Avid to have a VO guru on hand >>> to figure out the most efficient workflow for me to get something >>> done, just like I don't expect every support techie to have the >>> knowledge to instantly switch off the "drag and drop" terminology in >>> his script every time I call Apple, but if a task isn't achievable >>> via the keyboard or isn't achievable with VO due to elements not >>> being exposed or being incorrectly defined etc, surely it's not >>> unreasonable to expect acknowledgement and response to that. In most >>> cases it would after all, be an issue that could be fixed with no >>> specialist knowledge of anything more than Apple's developer >>> guidelines. I suppose what I'm getting at is this. VO support not >>> being publicly stated (even the current partial VO support puts them >>> ahead of the game compared to Apple themselves) makes me uneasy that >>> we're not going to be publicly acknowledged as a userbase either. So, >>> if that's the case, what happens about new features or interface >>> tweaks from here on in? As I said, I totally agree that Avid >>> implementing Apple's accessibility guidelines is the most that we >>> could expect from them, and I am grateful for what's been implemented >>> so far, but consistency is key to this being a viable product for VO >>> users to be able to rely upon it professionally. I have to wonder >>> whether implementing those guidelines and ensuring that new features >>> aren't going to be totally beyond users of accessibility will be >>> considered as part of the development cycle, or whether the best we >>> can expect is playing catch up every few years. >>> >>> I'm not intending to knock Avid. It's just this whole notion of >>> accessibility as a feature really, really bugs me. >>> >>> On 6/30/10, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> I'm preparing an update for the web site at ProToolsPetition.org. >>>> For what it's worth, I'll post it here first because it probably >>>> won't post to the web site for another day or two. >>>> >>>> Update Summer 2010 >>>> >>>> It seems that the fruits of many people's labor are finally >>>> beginning to show. After years of interfacing with Digidesign, now >>>> known as Avid Technologies, we're seeing the results of our efforts >>>> to gain access to Pro Tools. Changes to the code base of Pro Tools >>>> that make it easier to navigate the user interface with VoiceOver in OS X >>>> were implemented in version 8.0.4. >>>> In early June, the HD version was released with the LE and M-Powered >>>> versions to follow soon. >>>> >>>> While there was a great amount of work done to help make Pro Tools >>>> useable with VoiceOver, it is by no means a completed project but >>>> rather a work in progress. While major aspects of the application >>>> are accessible, there remains some areas that will need to be >>>> addressed in future versions. We always knew that the issue of >>>> accessibility to Pro Tools would need a long-term solution. We hope >>>> to see improvements to be rolled out over several releases in the coming >>>> years. >>>> >>>> Although Avid Technologies has made changes to Pro Tools to >>>> specifically work better with VoiceOver, it has no plans to announce >>>> it as an official feature, per se. Regarding it as a feature would >>>> imply thorough testing and full customer support from the perspective of >>>> usability with VoiceOver. >>>> Naturally, one wouldn't expect Avid to troubleshoot issues regarding >>>> accessibility and the use of a screen reader. Essentially, what Avid >>>> has done is they've begun to label UI elements according to Apple's >>>> programming guidelines. The rest of the user experience has more to >>>> do with how VoiceOver works and best practices as blind users of the >>>> operating system and application software. >>>> >>>> Again, since this project is still a work in progress, it's still >>>> somewhat experimental as we discover what works and what doesn't. >>>> Although Pro Tools is not yet 100% accessible in all of it's areas, >>>> I'm glad that the work done thus far was included in the 8.0.4 >>>> release. It will allow blind users to begin learning the Pro Tools >>>> environment and workflow with plenty of features to explore and >>>> master. In the mean time, Avid is aware of the PTAccess email list >>>> at GoogleGroups.com and will direct any inquiries from blind users >>>> to the growing community of users in the group. Any issues of >>>> accessibility can be discussed there and any bugs or feature requests will >>>> be aggregated for future submission to Avid. >>>> >>>> I'll continue to post any major updates here but for the latest >>>> information go to http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess >>>> >>>> Slau Halatyn >> >
