Hey Slau,
What would it take for you to make a complete switch to version 8?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Slau Halatyn" <slauhala...@gmail.com>
To: <ptaccess@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2010 9:07 AM
Subject: Re: Update Summer 2010
Hey Scott,
I'd personally love it if Avid would invest the resources to make Pro Tools
100% accessible right now, both on the Mac and Windows, for that matter. The
undeniable truth is that the blind user base is probably, if not definitely,
a fraction of the total. Any future improvements will likely come when
resources allow. Again, this is a long-term project and things will happen
over the course of several releases.
Keep in mind that what we've gained is largely permanent. In other words, it
doesn't involve relying on screen resolution, window position and scripts.
In future releases, things won't be broken and scripts rewritten. There
seems to be some comfort in the Sonar model of knowing that people are
constantly working to ensure accessibility. Thing is, as you may know, that
is a constant battle to fix things that get broken. Look at what happened to
Sibelius. Yes, an open source project began and I don't know where it
currently stands but I guarantee you that future releases of Sibelius will
present a constant stream of challenges for scripting. Of course, I'm not
even raising the complaints about JAWS.
We have here a simpler problem which is, in a way, a difficult one as well.
It stems from Apple's decision to make developers deal with accessibility.
That's an ideological stand with which one may agree or disagree. On the
upside is the knowledge that, once an application is made accessible (or, in
some cases, is accessible out of the box), it's not likely to change or get
broken. On the downside is the challenge to be heard when dealing with a
corporation when something isn't accessible. As you probably know, many
small developers are more than happy to make changes to their programs to
make them more accessible but they can turn stuff around immediately because
they're doing it in their spare time and don't have to budget for it, have a
bunch of meetings, pay a team of programmers and answer to their
shareholders, etc.
It's a decidedly different ballgame when it comes to major software and a
giant user base. This is not ideal and, again, it would be nice to have
everything happen right away with a huge announcement about VoiceOver
compatibility but it's still essentially experimental at this point. It may
or may not ever be a "feature," per se. As mentioned earlier, "feature"
would imply complete support and that, my friend, is just unrealistic. Now,
you may not expect that support and I certainly don't but, believe me, there
will be those who would demand support on using Pro Tools with Voiceover
simply by calling Avid's technical support. That, in my opinion, is an
unreasonable expectation. I think most blind users would understand and
that's exactly why a community like this was begun—to support each other in
this largely uncharted territory.
Scott, believe me, I, more than anyone, want Pro Tools to be fully
accessible. My career depends upon having a stable, useable recording
system. That's why I've invested not only incalculable hours, days, weeks,
months of my life but also thousands of dollars in flights, hotels, etc. to
interface with Digidesign to help make this happen. While I knew that this
would benefit me personally and professionally, I knew that it would benefit
others. I wish it could've been flawless from day 1 but, to be honest, I'd
rather have what we have now for the near future and be able to do most of
what I need to do.
As far as viability, well, that's a relative term just like "accessible"
means different things to different people. To me, what we have in version
8.0.4 is viable depending upon one's needs. Frankly, I have to say, I
probably won't make a total migration from version 5 to version 8. I'm
fortunate to have not only an HD system capable of operating both under OS 9
and OS X as well as versions 5 through 8, I also have a separate Digi 003
system to dedicate to anything specific to version 8 and higher. That said,
given a little more time and perhaps a few improvements, I'd likely make a
full transition fairly soon. For now, I hope to continue a relationship with
the folks at Avid with whom I've tried to develop a friendly relationship.
To get to this point, it took a lot of patience. there were times when I
wondered whether we'd ever get results. Well, we've begun to see some major
results and I think we need to continue to be patient as we move forward.
I know that much of what I'm saying, you already know and I'm pretty much
stating certain things for the benefit of others. You may disagree with
certain things I've said. I'm sure we're mostly in agreement and I'm quite
confident that we ultimately want the same thing.
Slau
On Jun 30, 2010, at 4:19 AM, Scott Chesworth wrote:
The word "feature" and "accessibility" in the same sentence always
makes me uneasy. No, I wouldn't expect Avid to have a VO guru on hand
to figure out the most efficient workflow for me to get something
done, just like I don't expect every support techie to have the
knowledge to instantly switch off the "drag and drop" terminology in
his script every time I call Apple, but if a task isn't achievable via
the keyboard or isn't achievable with VO due to elements not being
exposed or being incorrectly defined etc, surely it's not unreasonable
to expect acknowledgement and response to that. In most cases it would
after all, be an issue that could be fixed with no specialist
knowledge of anything more than Apple's developer guidelines. I
suppose what I'm getting at is this. VO support not being publicly
stated (even the current partial VO support puts them ahead of the
game compared to Apple themselves) makes me uneasy that we're not
going to be publicly acknowledged as a userbase either. So, if that's
the case, what happens about new features or interface tweaks from
here on in? As I said, I totally agree that Avid implementing Apple's
accessibility guidelines is the most that we could expect from them,
and I am grateful for what's been implemented so far, but consistency
is key to this being a viable product for VO users to be able to rely
upon it professionally. I have to wonder whether implementing those
guidelines and ensuring that new features aren't going to be totally
beyond users of accessibility will be considered as part of the
development cycle, or whether the best we can expect is playing catch
up every few years.
I'm not intending to knock Avid. It's just this whole notion of
accessibility as a feature really, really bugs me.
On 6/30/10, Slau Halatyn <slauhala...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm preparing an update for the web site at ProToolsPetition.org. For
what
it's worth, I'll post it here first because it probably won't post to the
web site for another day or two.
Update Summer 2010
It seems that the fruits of many people's labor are finally beginning to
show. After years of interfacing with Digidesign, now known as Avid
Technologies, we're seeing the results of our efforts to gain access to
Pro
Tools. Changes to the code base of Pro Tools that make it easier to
navigate
the user interface with VoiceOver in OS X were implemented in version
8.0.4.
In early June, the HD version was released with the LE and M-Powered
versions to follow soon.
While there was a great amount of work done to help make Pro Tools
useable
with VoiceOver, it is by no means a completed project but rather a work
in
progress. While major aspects of the application are accessible, there
remains some areas that will need to be addressed in future versions. We
always knew that the issue of accessibility to Pro Tools would need a
long-term solution. We hope to see improvements to be rolled out over
several releases in the coming years.
Although Avid Technologies has made changes to Pro Tools to specifically
work better with VoiceOver, it has no plans to announce it as an official
feature, per se. Regarding it as a feature would imply thorough testing
and
full customer support from the perspective of usability with VoiceOver.
Naturally, one wouldn't expect Avid to troubleshoot issues regarding
accessibility and the use of a screen reader. Essentially, what Avid has
done is they've begun to label UI elements according to Apple's
programming
guidelines. The rest of the user experience has more to do with how
VoiceOver works and best practices as blind users of the operating system
and application software.
Again, since this project is still a work in progress, it's still
somewhat
experimental as we discover what works and what doesn't. Although Pro
Tools
is not yet 100% accessible in all of it's areas, I'm glad that the work
done
thus far was included in the 8.0.4 release. It will allow blind users to
begin learning the Pro Tools environment and workflow with plenty of
features to explore and master. In the mean time, Avid is aware of the
PTAccess email list at GoogleGroups.com and will direct any inquiries
from
blind users to the growing community of users in the group. Any issues of
accessibility can be discussed there and any bugs or feature requests
will
be aggregated for future submission to Avid.
I'll continue to post any major updates here but for the latest
information
go to
http://www.googlegroups.com/group/ptaccess
Slau Halatyn
