On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 12:30:48 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > Ah the smell of disinformation. > > On 06/23/2017 10:28 AM, cooloutac wrote: > > > On Thursday, June 22, 2017 at 6:51:27 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote: > >> On 06/21/2017 10:57 PM, cooloutac wrote: > >> > >>> I agree they are super overpriced But i'm not sure we can have 100% > >>> libre hardware, at least not for desktops. I heard the guy Chris from > >>> thinkpenguin talk about on a radio show once, how there is really only a > >>> couple manufactures that dominate the world. You would have to make > >>> every single part from scratch. > >>> > >>> I don't know anything about coreboot or libreboot. Though I know I'd > >>> actually would like to have secure boot, but I guess I'm crazy. > >>> > >> Of course you can, see the TALOS project for libre hardware/firmware > >> concepts and the KGPE-D16/KCMA-D8 for actual production libre firmware, > >> there are some POWER computers as well. > >> > >> If someone tells you otherwise they don't know what they are talking > >> about, there is nothing stopping a company from making a libre computer > >> even a small company as long as they have the cash, purism could have > >> they just didn't want to. > >> > >> Secure Boot is a marketing term for kernel code signing enforcement and > >> grub already does this, MS "secure" (from you) boot is a way for them to > >> eventually stop people from running linux. > > I searched talos project and see stuff about body armor? > The TALOS project from raptor engineering was a 100% libre firmware and > hardware PC project that did not meet crowdfunding goals. > > > > The guy from think penguin who sells libre laptops doesn't know what he is > > talking about? I agree he is a little extreme and paranoid, but The radio > > show was focused on wireless devices at the time and the dangers of the fcc > > ruling to lock them, and why purism, nor anybody, truly has a 100% libre > > machine. There is many firmwares integrated and attached to a mobo, but > > you are acting as if there is only one. > Thinkpenguin and system76 are good honest companies FYI, I would suggest > supporting them if you are interested in a new intel machine for linux. > He is not extreme nor paranoid, the fcc thing could mean the end of open > source linux drivers and firmware for wifi chips. > > There is not "many firmwares attached to a mobo" there really is only > one most of the time, I know what I am talking about as I am involved in > the coreboot project and I own several libre firmware machines. > The KGPE-D16 and KCMA-D8 have full functionality with libre firmware and > zero blobs, I even play the latest games on mine so that excuse from > purism that "oh no one has this" doesn't fly moreso because they haven't > even "struck a compromise for the latest hardware" or what not as again > their "coreboot" has entirely blobbed hw init making it pointless. > > The exception to this rule would be a device with for example an > integrated storage device, FullMAC (not the SoftMAC AGN atheros types) > wireless chip, or a laptop/mobile board with an EC. > > > > I don't know what you mean secure boot is a way to stop linux. It is > > supported by all major linux distributions. Even after that myth is proven > > wrong you still perpetuate it? Even after Richard Stallman himself says > > its ok to use secure boot? > "supported by all major linux distros" > Only by using a red hat supplied signed binary pre-compiled sketchy > version of grub. > I don't think I should need to ask red hat for permission to run linux > do you? > A machine that lacks the ability to use even your own bootloader is not > really your machine you are simply licensing the use of it. > > SB 1.0 specs require owner control and method to shut it off and enroll > own keys, SB 2.0 doesn't have this requirement so OEM's will eventually > not implement it similarly to MS's ARM computers that only allow you to > install windows - thus stopping people from using linux so no it isn't a > myth. > > I don't believe grub2 can take the place of secure boot. WOuld it have > > stopped hacking teams insyde bios exploit? More to it then just the > > kernel. I believe you would sign the grub but then grub would also be > > protected. I mean what does grub have to do with the bios? > Again secure boot is simply kernel signing nothing special. > Grub2 on a coreboot device can perform the same function only it is > always owned controlled, most coreboot users use grub to load kernels > instead of loading a kernel directly from CBFS. > > HT's exploit of crappy proprietary BIOS's would work on a "secure" boot > or otherwise machine. > > > If you want a 100% libre computer,you will have to manufacture every single > > chip on the mobo yourself. > [citation needed] > Again that is purism propaganda that simply isn't true - again see > raptor engineerings TALOS project as a proof of concept, it was already > ready to go they just had to fab the boards. > > Because there is literally only maybe 2 or 3 companies who manufacture > > certain parts for a mobo in all of the world. > [citation needed] > If you were a hardware engineer you would know that isn't true, why do > you insist on saying "facts" about things you know nothing about > > Do you know how much time and money, legal and political obstacles that > > would have? It would take more then the resources of a small indie > > company. > Yet again see TALOS - the only reason it didn't work is because they > tried to get the crowdfunding money from a notoriously cheap community > instead of the business world. > > I have several libre firmware servers under my desk right now, and I > contributed to the crowdfunding campaign for a libre BMC from raptor > which will be ready in a few months. > > Off the shelf from a vendor? IBM will be happy to sell you a very high > performance computer with libre firmware for 10K, and you can get the > hardware specs if you become an OpenPOWER member. > > There is no law that stops people from doing it and you don't have to > ask the government for permission - I grow increasingly tired of people > like you who spout facts as if they are experts in the field.
only one firmware rom attached to a mobo? What about the cpu, what about other integrated chips on the mobo besides the bios rom? asking redhat for permission to use secure boot? wtf? I know You're being faceitious but it sounds even more ridiculous when they contribute most to the linux kernel and you are using Qubes which has dom0 based on fedora. Who are you jealous of more, Redhat or Windows? Why do I say only a couple companies control/manufacture everything? Cause thats what Chris from thinkpeguin said, the guy you said knows what hes talking about. The same goes for most industries. Also its just human nature, something engineers and developers have a hard time understanding. So with Talos you then, according to you, have an example of how hard is to fund such a project. Although I don't think you really understand by how much. It would not be that easy to get funding from corporations because special interests are also invovled, and its going to take a shit load of money man. Chris will tell you its impossible right now. So we can be upset at purism for exaggerating/lying and being a marketing scheme, but we can't blame them for not having a 100% libre machine because its not practical for anybody right now. What would you rather they did use some arm architecture with a shitty processor noone would buy? Joanna points out most arm processors are not even open sourced let alone libre. People also said secure boot would be the death of linux, so sorry if I don't understand your sb 2.0 comment and take it with a grain of salt... Its not gonna make me run for my guns like "people like you"... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "qubes-users" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/qubes-users/06a96395-0329-4cf0-99e3-23b19aee7a3b%40googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
